BNT NZSuperTourer 2015

[Tom bear]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

=Tom bear;3506446]He was furious..told other competitors but same old story. The series has no one at the top to make tough decisions to Dq the car. The irony is this series was scarred to upset team owners so they didn't enforce the rules properly..by doing this it became a joke championship. Drivers / team owners / tech guys laughing about how certain cars are blatantly cheating.

Interesting..... As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant. What strikes me as odd is that for all the allegations, there’s very very rarely specifics given. No doubt you (and plenty of others) know who and what the steward saw?[/QUOTE]

It's general knowledge..

To be honest to go and ask one of the competitors about cheating in this series..they will give you a list..everything from shocks, brake pads and exhausts..I can assure you there is no shortage of specifics.

[Tom bear]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Ouch.

I won’t comment on what you appear to be insinuating, simply because from my vantage point I’ve not seen anything that raises any flags.... Perhaps you could share some detail of “what was promised”?

The fact that the series has folded ...so people invested in a franchise and cars that they can't race..and the promise of a series with the same equipment(equal playing field) wasn't carried out raises no red flags with you?

The franchisees are so unhappy that only 4 showed up to the last round..people would rather leave there car in a garage..that's normal..no red flags?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Shoreboy57

None of the above - just a dispirited racing fan altho' have also been a national series sponsor and naming rights car sponsor for Greg Brink back in the day of two-litre tourers. So there is a little history but a long time ago

However I'm active as an administrator in another sport, so perhaps I look at this through a different lens.

Lindsay

Actually I don't think I was referring to you and I agree with some of what you said

I was talking about where the main abuse was coming from (apart from the Usual Suspects)- Tom Bear, Tailgater and ElCoyote.

[Goat Boy]

Pointing the finger at Mark Petch for the state of the current series is not only misinformed, it's plain stupid. But then, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[Chappelli]

Exactly my point. If it's general knowledge and there's so many examples... It seems odd that you (like lots of others) are happy to take the reservation, but insist I talk to someone else to see the menu...

As for flags, I see two V8 classes, neither of which can get half the chassis on the grid. So, I'm quite comfortable with the 'big budgets' are hard to find explanation... I also get that someone owns the series, so it would seem fairly logical that there's the possibility that it folds (in a lot of ways, it's perhaps more odd that the other class is still running).
So no, nothing 'South Canterbury Finance' ish that I'm aware of.... Again, hit us with some specifics, I'm all ears.....

[tailgater]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Exactly my point. If it's general knowledge and there's so many examples... It seems odd that you (like lots of others) are happy to take the reservation, but insist I talk to someone else to see the menu...

As for flags, I see two V8 classes, neither of which can get half the chassis on the grid. So, I'm quite comfortable with the 'big budgets' are hard to find explanation... I also get that someone owns the series, so it would seem fairly logical that there's the possibility that it folds (in a lot of ways, it's perhaps more odd that the other class is still running).
So no, nothing 'South Canterbury Finance' ish that I'm aware of.... Again, hit us with some specifics, I'm all ears.....

From what I can gather the original sell for those who purchased cars and 'franchises' was that in a short period of time the 'franchise' would generate a return for the franchise holder, a return funded by the enormous television viewership. I know of a car owner that has never actually raced, he paid for the car in full under the spoken promise that was all the money he would ever need to spend, the rest would come in sponsorship from corporates that just had to be involved.

This was one of the big points of difference for the V8ST which would run a winter program to suit those that would tune in on a sunday afternoon to watch the spectacle. Has everyone forgotten this?

[Chappelli]

So said driver believed that The class would be the most successful at generating revenue in Motorsport history (magnitudes more successful than any other class on the face of the planet if you also consider our small TV population) all on a spoken promise?
Either the driver misunderstood and is epically stupid or the person who sold him the car is perhaps the greatest fraudster of all time and the driver is the dumbest mofo on the face of the planet....

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I was talking about where the main abuse was coming from (apart from the Usual Suspects)- Tom Bear, Tailgater and ElCoyote.

Im picking one of those three is also the editor for "Track Torque NZ" on Face book, man-o-man there is some bitter hate one eyed reporting happening in that camp.

Im sure the admin's will know who is who based on I.P. addresses and previous names, they see a whole other side of it.

[BackSeat Driver]

I believe Matt Gibson has just purchased the JMR car a couple of weeks back . . . that's gotta hurt at the moment.

[tailgater]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

So said driver believed that The class would be the most successful at generating revenue in Motorsport history (magnitudes more successful than any other class on the face of the planet if you also consider our small TV population) all on a spoken promise?
Either the driver misunderstood and is epically stupid or the person who sold him the car is perhaps the greatest fraudster of all time and the driver is the dumbest mofo on the face of the planet....

Thankfully you see my point, in particular "or the person who sold him the car is perhaps the greatest fraudster of all time"

Bingo

[Chappelli]

C'mon, I refuse to believe anyone is that dumb

Who was the driver? I have some Lotto tickets to sell him, they're in great condition, have only been used once.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by BackSeat Driver

I believe Matt Gibson has just purchased the JMR car a couple of weeks back . . . that's gotta hurt at the moment.

That would supprise me considering the shoe string budget of the 86 he runs.

[Blackpearl]

sanyongg utesand v8 utes what is with them considering they are the supports and signed on for deals with tv etc.

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by BackSeat Driver

I believe Matt Gibson has just purchased the JMR car a couple of weeks back . . . that's gotta hurt at the moment.

Sorry MARK Gibson (not Matt).

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

That would supprise me considering the shoe string budget of the 86 he runs.

Sorry - that's how bad rumours get started

Apologies to Matt (& Mark).

A.B.

[tailgater]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

C'mon, I refuse to believe anyone is that dumb

Who was the driver? I have some Lotto tickets to sell him, they're in great condition, have only been used once.

lol

[promax]

Originally Posted by BackSeat Driver

Im picking one of those three is also the editor for "Track Torque NZ" on Face book, man-o-man there is some bitter hate one eyed reporting happening in that camp.

not a fan of facebook.. but tonight it is hilarious to read! so many people butt hurt over nothing?! I'm sure the sun will come up tomorrow.. and life will go on. it's not the end of the world people

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

My sources tell me that the TL guys want to race on a separate grid with the ST's when all is sorted.

Stu, I like your enthusiasm but if you look back a bit, they have tried this. It was called Challenge Cup, and it offered all sorts of incentives. And what happened?

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Stu, I like your enthusiasm but if you look back a bit, they have tried this. It was called Challenge Cup, and it offered all sorts of incentives. And what happened?

TL is nothing more then club racing now days.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

TL is nothing more then club racing now days.

Absolutely correct, and that backs up post I made recently. NZ Motorsport is in a sad state gentlemen.

[promax]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Absolutely correct, and that backs up post I made recently. NZ Motorsport is in a sad state gentlemen.

I'm sure D1NZ will get a good turn out on the weekend. and I will no doubt enjoy myself at the IRC meeting all is not lost

[Goat Boy]

I've gotta say that even V8SC are frantically trying to reinvent themselves to avoid becoming dinosaurs - perhaps the days of single spec V8 tin top racing are over. Even in NZV8's heyday it didn't used to pull the sorts of crowds that used to watch motorsport back in the 60's and 70's.

I think the trouble is there is so much to do these days, particularly in the big cities - it's pretty easy to stay in town and be entertained rather than traipse all the way to the racetrack. Which is why the drifts are popular when they're in town. John Banks' idea of a V8SC street race in Auckland would have worked well, for a while at least.

[Chappelli]

Unless you’ve got a spectacular show, it’s also hard to justify investing an entire weekend at an event. As it stands I can go to the track for a few hours and at some points be lucky to see the headline act on track..... Be kinda cool to see the headline act on track 5 times a day

[mountainstar]

Sad that the party is over but at least it was given a try.

It certainly started out pretty good, but something must have been going on internally because everybody cleared house and most of the original people involved, especially the drivers and car owners took flight.

Lots of potential wasted away and I don't know where they go from here because no one seems to have any interest in moving forward with it.

That said the competitor NZV8's is on borrowed time as well, only a few TLX cars and the TL cars are now long obsolete and old.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I've gotta say that even V8SC are frantically trying to reinvent themselves to avoid becoming dinosaurs - perhaps the days of single spec V8 tin top racing are over. Even in NZV8's heyday it didn't used to pull the sorts of crowds that used to watch motorsport back in the 60's and 70's.

I wouldn't see V8SC is being frantic but they see the world is changing, again as it always does, and it's not 1993 anymore(sadly, I thought it was a lot of fun back then).

Racing "touring cars" doesn't seem to be pulling people in anymore worldwide as it did, sports cars seems to pull more interest. And perhaps the category in New Zealand is just too expensive to be reasonable. I think the TL class did well because the cars could be built off of an old road car Falcon or Commodore, the engine parts could be bought out of a catalog and that was accessible and doable for a lot of people. The Supertourer and MRX cars you have to essentially go and buy that off the shelf from a supplier. To have a car that rolls under it's own power that's 150K-250K and that doesn't even factor in parts and repairs, which of course in some cases must be bought from mandated suppliers at a fixed price.

By doing that you have essentially taken out the guy with a garage or small business that builds up a car and can repair on it his own or replace with another shell, or if not himself, have it done locally. Instead it moved into an area with what needs a professional team structure and a big spend on assets.

Perhaps when all said and done that ended up being a bridge too far for a country the size of New Zealand. It essentially narrowed the market down to a very narrow segment of people that could afford to do all that and if those people don't want to play, you're screwed. Pick an average guy with a small business or two in a city like Christchurch. Buying a 200K car off the shelf, thats a tough ask. Buying a road car Commodore that is a few years old, stripping it down, putting a crate engine in, a cage and other racing gear and using locals to do it, maybe more feasible.