Women in motorsport (was F.Woman)

[Bryan Degerlund]

There were 17 starters for the first race, and, with the unfortunate two eliminated following the Paddock incident, fifteen starters for the second race. I hope this answers JohnMiller's question.

This was the first time I had seen FW, live or on screen, and I admit I was impressed. Close racing throughout the field, lapping the Indy circuit in 1:00 minute, and more entertaining than a number of other more experienced, series.

It is unfortunate that now the "girls" are getting more experience the series has ended.

Bryan Degerlund
Chief Startline Marshal

[ss_collins]

yup - but considering the inexperience - the front runners did do very well.

[Tuscan 6]

I went along to the racing on Sunday. I wasn’t quite sure what to expect – and was initially disappointed at the size of the meeting: Karts, Mid engined sports cars, SELOC BMWs, 2 CVs and Formula Woman. I’m more used to a fuller timetable.

The FW set up was interesting. Each car had a pit garage, there were a couple of sponsor’s stands but no obvious hospitality (perhaps this was on the outside of the track, but if so I didn’t find it!). The cars and drivers were all accessible – if you wanted to have a nose in the cars it wasn’t a problem, and the girls were milling about most of the time.

I was surprised to find Steve Gugliemi, in a Mazda shirt, tinkering with the cars. Steve was the 2002 Tuscan Challenge champion. He and his team were employed by Mazda (interestingly NOT Formula Woman) to look after the cars – basic stuff such as tyre pressures, oil levels, tracking when someone had an off etc… His presence there did a lot for me in terms of the credibility of the series.

The qualifying times were reasonably close – I think they were all within a couple of seconds of each other – a far cry from the 19 second gap at Oulton. Steve commented that they had a problem with the catalysts breaking up and blocking – cutting power dramatically. Apparently this happens because the cars are frequently started up, moved a short distance then stopped. The next time the car is started more fuel gets pumped through the system and ultimately ignites in the cat, causing it to break up. This was a problem for one of the girls in the first race.

All the cars are standard road cars with stripped out interior and bolt in roll cages. Tyres and suspension are standard, with up-rated brake pads the only change. The girls are not allowed to make any changes to the cars, including tyre pressures which are the same on every car.

He did comment that some of the early batches of tyres were inconsistent – a set fitted to Natasha Firman’s car were significantly quicker than the others – when the same set were fitted to another girl’s car, that car became quicker. All tyres now were, in his view, equal.

On to the races themselves: the karts were interesting and with a field of 38 it was like watching a smarm of bees. The racing was good, although to me it lacks the visual drama of a good car race, perhaps because the damned things are too small to see properly and distinguish between them.

The 2CVs were excellent. Slow, but 5 of them battled side by side for the full 40 minutes and it was very entertaining.

The first FW race was accompanied by some ‘interesting’ commentary. It was harmless enough, entertaining too. But it verged on patronising and I can’t believe the chap would ever dream of commentating like that on a normal race. It was in the style of a mildly concerned father, with a bit of injected humour. Much was made of the fact that the girls were novices and we were never allowed to forget they were girls…. ‘now come on Pippa, you really must try not to spin in this race, dear’…

The race itself was better than I expected. The girls were certainly trying hard and all of them were drifting the cars through Paddock Hill bend. Car control was a bit lacking in some – they were not very good at recovering a sideways car. One or two lifted off or braked mid corner, with predictable consequences. There were I think 4 spins at Paddock Hill.

It was perhaps inevitable when the (2nd placed?) girl span and was collected hard by the girl in 3rd place. Both cars suffered heavy front end impacts (destroyed to my eye!). One was out of the car quickly, the other was in the car for some time before walking out. One was subsequently put on a stretcher and into the ambulance. The race was red flagged then restarted – another girl put her car into the gravel at Paddock…

All in all, it wasn’t a bad race – there could have been some more overtaking and they need to stop throwing themselves off – but better than I expected. A walk up the pit lane showed that at least half the field had bodywork damage. Just as well they weren’t paying!

The BMW race was excellent. The car control was noticeably better than FW – and it is worth mentioning that there were a large number of novices in this race too. There was one exception – one chap got it wrong at Paddock, recovered, then chucked it off again at Graham Hill (turned in with a wheel on the grass). He was overdriving, but settled down after that. There were some very sideways moments but on the whole they were gathered up. They seemed a more accomplished bunch than the girls.

The second FW race had more mayhem. Another spinner at Paddock was clipped by another car. One girl got too far onto the dirt on the exit to Druids, over compensated for the slide and span the other way, into the wall. That made a total of 4 out of 16 cars damaged too severely to race. The behaviour under waved yellows was, errm, poor – they were still exiting the previous bend on the edge of control, and I’m not surprised the marshals made sure they were on the safe side of the barriers each time the girls came through when they were trying to move a car into a safer position. I know the men are often just as bad – but in this case, having seen the number of tank-slappers previously, it did look like there was another accident waiting to happen.

One oddity – one of the FW races ran two laps under a safety car. The commentator correctly said that these laps counted as part of the race distance. Then low and behold, the race was extended by two laps. In contrast, the mid-engined race was red flagged 4 laps before the end because a car was in a dangerous position on the exit to Graham Hill bend. It could easily have been towed off under a safety car.

So, overall, better than I was expecting. On the plus side the girls were trying hard but some demonstrated their lack of experience. The crowd (such as it was) seemed more family orientated than many meetings – but I suspect that this was because each of the girls had extended family and friends there.

Undoubtedly (in my opinion) there was something going on in terms of the selection process. The ‘interesting’ occupations are too much of a coincidence, as are the connections of some with the organisers. That said, they all seemed to be trying hard on the day – and they had the additional pressure of TV interview etc to cope with that the rest of us don’t. On the other hand they also had an MX-5 each and a fair amount of tuition and support, so I guess it cuts both ways. I think they will all find it difficult to make headway in motor sport after this has finished (like we all do) – but if one or two of them are still trying in a couple of years I guess that is some sort of success.

Finally, I had a lovely chat with Sally, a lady marshal who normally works at Thruxton. She was standing by the tunnel enjoying the 5 2CVs battling it out with a huge smile on her face, and was a delight to speak to. She didn’t make any comment about it being a male dominated sport – she clearly really enjoys being involved. Her presence and that of the other lady marshals to me said more about women in motor sport than the artificial Formula Woman environment. There are no barriers to women entering motor sport that do not also exist for men.

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Tuscan 6


The first FW race was accompanied by some ‘interesting’ commentary. It was harmless enough, entertaining too. But it verged on patronising and I can’t believe the chap would ever dream of commentating like that on a normal race. It was in the style of a mildly concerned father, with a bit of injected humour. Much was made of the fact that the girls were novices and we were never allowed to forget they were girls…. ‘now come on Pippa, you really must try not to spin in this race, dear’…

If it was the same commentator as Saturday, I think it is just his style and he was probably trying to add touch of humour to it all.
He was doing a grid and pit walkabout on Saturday and my throttle jammed wide open during my first race and he started asking me questions while I was trying to fix it while the race was going on and I wanted to get back out, I just hope it wasn't braodcast over the PA.

[Superliner II]

Gallery of Photos from yesterdays Formula Woman at Brands Hatch

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Superliner II
Gallery of Photos from yesterdays Formula Woman at Brands Hatch

Nowt but a blank screen.

[ss_collins]

commentator was the legendary Brian Jones.

[Tuscan 6]

Originally posted by falcemob
If it was the same commentator as Saturday, I think it is just his style and he was probably trying to add touch of humour to it all.
He was doing a grid and pit walkabout on Saturday and my throttle jammed wide open during my first race and he started asking me questions while I was trying to fix it while the race was going on and I wanted to get back out, I just hope it wasn't braodcast over the PA.

I don't disagree. As I said, I found it quite entertaining - but I did suddenly think half way through what a contrast it was to the commentary on the other races.

Incidentally - I watched the Knockhill round when I got home. Whilst it is a difficult track, the in car footage confirmed that some are not too good at coping with a bit of oversteer.

The grids are too small in the Tuscan Challenge at the moment and there are drives available. I had toyed with the idea of seeing if any of the FW drivers wanted to have a go, particularly as they will have a window now when they should find it (relatively) easy to raise sponsorship. Having seen the race at Brands and the in car stuff from Knockhill, I would be concerned about sticking most of them in a Tuscan.

[PaulSands]

2CV's maybe be snails but they are always ultra competitive and excellent entertainment (though circuits don't need to be much longer that Brands Indy or Mallory for full entertainment value)
The also like to travel around corner in routs, which is apparently the collective noun for snails http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es,_and_plants

[Superliner II]

Another try at Formula Women pics

[Bryan Degerlund]

In response to Tuscan6, regulations for the FW state first three laps under safety car do not count, therefore race effectively became 22 lap race. Most of the time I cannot hear the commentator clearly on the starter podium so cannot comment on his interpretation. The FW race was the only race allowing for a safety car, for the other races, Blue Book states if more than 50% of race is completed when race is stopped -- the correct decision in this case, with car stranded at edge of circuit at exit to Graham Hill -- then that is the end of the race. Not necessarily fair but thems the rules!

[Tuscan 6]

Originally posted by Bryan Degerlund
In response to Tuscan6, regulations for the FW state first three laps under safety car do not count, therefore race effectively became 22 lap race. Most of the time I cannot hear the commentator clearly on the starter podium so cannot comment on his interpretation. The FW race was the only race allowing for a safety car, for the other races, Blue Book states if more than 50% of race is completed when race is stopped -- the correct decision in this case, with car stranded at edge of circuit at exit to Graham Hill -- then that is the end of the race. Not necessarily fair but thems the rules!

Ah, that explains it then. It was still a shame to see the AMOC race stopped in those circumstances, even if them was the rules!

[Tuscan 6]

Originally posted by Bryan Degerlund
In response to Tuscan6, regulations for the FW state first three laps under safety car do not count, therefore race effectively became 22 lap race. Most of the time I cannot hear the commentator clearly on the starter podium so cannot comment on his interpretation. The FW race was the only race allowing for a safety car, for the other races, Blue Book states if more than 50% of race is completed when race is stopped -- the correct decision in this case, with car stranded at edge of circuit at exit to Graham Hill -- then that is the end of the race. Not necessarily fair but thems the rules!

Ah, that explains it then. It was still a shame to see the AMOC race stopped in those circumstances, even if them was the rules!

[Rob29]

Did anyone discover who actually won the FW championship or is this being kept secret until the final TV programme?

[Tuscan 6]

Natasha Firman. Its all over the Formula Woman website, so no secret.

[BertMk2]

Originally posted by PaulSands
2CV's maybe be snails but they are always ultra competitive and excellent entertainment (though circuits don't need to be much longer that Brands Indy or Mallory for full entertainment value)

I saw the 2cv's at Lydden a couple of weeks ago, I have to say I was distinctly underwhelmed. Looked terrible, sounded terrible and there wasn't a lot of overtaking going on either, very poor really.

As far as Formula Woman goes (back on topic ) I saw it for the first time yesterday on ITV, reasonable racing but the cars could do with some extra tweaks - the suspension looks a bit spongy doesn't it? Will the series carry on next year or is that it for the series now?

[Tuscan 6]

Originally posted by BertMk2
I saw the 2cv's at Lydden a couple of weeks ago, I have to say I was distinctly underwhelmed. Looked terrible, sounded terrible and there wasn't a lot of overtaking going on either, very poor really.

As far as Formula Woman goes (back on topic ) I saw it for the first time yesterday on ITV, reasonable racing but the cars could do with some extra tweaks - the suspension looks a bit spongy doesn't it? Will the series carry on next year or is that it for the series now?

The 2CVs were good at Brands.

On the Mazdas, they were remarkably good for standard cars. I think suspension mods etc would simply increase the speed at which some of the ladies left the track.

The Knockhill round showed some failing to respond to a slide by applying any corrective steering input, and others twirling the wheel so violently that they sent the cars into a spin in the opposite direction.

[ss_collins]

thats the showing of inexperience I mentioned.

If the series doesn't continue what becomes of the cars?

[Tuscan 6]

Two of the cars are for the crusher. A third may be as bad. Of the remainder about half have bodywork damage.

Perhaps they'll be sold off as race school cars?

As for the inexperience - they were doing their 6th and 7th races at Brands. And they've had tuition and time on track along the way.

All the girls were clearly trying hard. However I find it difficult to believe they were the most talented drivers of the 10,000 applicants.

[Keith Wheeler]

Originally posted by Tuscan 6
Two of the cars are for the crusher. A third may be as bad. Of the remainder about half have bodywork damage.

Perhaps they'll be sold off as race school cars?

As for the inexperience - they were doing their 6th and 7th races at Brands. And they've had tuition and time on track along the way.

All the girls were clearly trying hard. However I find it difficult to believe they were the most talented drivers of the 10,000 applicants.

They weren't looking for the most talented drivers, they were looking for 16 contestants for a reality TV show.
Controversy makes for good TV, apparently. That's why people
are saying how much 'better' the current Big Brother show is than the last one!

[Audi R8R]

Can I ask the inevitable question as to why there were 17 startersfor the first FW race, when there were only 16 shortlisted for the series...???

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Audi R8R
Can I ask the inevitable question as to why there were 17 startersfor the first FW race, when there were only 16 shortlisted for the series...???

Beacuse they gave Karen Andrews, a stand-by driver a go as well

[diz]

Originally posted by Tuscan 6
The first FW race was accompanied by some ‘interesting’ commentary. It was harmless enough, entertaining too. But it verged on patronising and I can’t believe the chap would ever dream of commentating like that on a normal race. It was in the style of a mildly concerned father, with a bit of injected humour. Much was made of the fact that the girls were novices and we were never allowed to forget they were girls…. ‘now come on Pippa, you really must try not to spin in this race, dear’…

Brian Jones is a commentary legend. He knows his stuff, researches properly and misses very little of the on and off track action.
Agreed he has his own style, but this just adds to his ability to inform and entertain his audience.
Compare him to most of the other circuit commentators - with the exception of maybe David Addison, and Ian Titchmarsh - and he is one of the best.
Take the comparison further to include satellite television commentators - my God, most of them are dire - and he scores even higher.
He also teaches public speaking and presentation skills to aspiring career drivers.
I've no personal connection to Brian, but have had the pleasure to observe him from the commentary box on many occasions. Commentating is not easy - I know, as I have tried it.
Ask any National or Club racing enthusiasts to name either any circuit commentator, or even the name of any commentator and the majority will say 'Brian Jones'

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by diz
Ask any National or Club racing enthusiasts to name either any circuit commentator, or even the name of any commentator and the majority will say 'Brian Jones'

I agree there diz, although I have never seen the face behind the voice, and didn't even know his name until last Saturday. He is truly one of the best motorsports commentators and I wouldn't think his FW commentary was meant to be patronising.

[Tuscan 6]

I agree and perhaps it was a poor choice of words on my part.

What I was trying to say was that it was marked contrast to the other races. And that seemd odd, given that FW was supposed to be bringing women into motorsport, rather than creating something different, just for women.

The series claimed that they were encouraging women into motorsport when in fact all they did was create an artificial and unnecessary segregation.

We don't need Formula Woman any more than we need Formula Black, Formula Jew or Formula 'born in Manchester'.

We need to continue to be supportive and welcoming to any newcomer to motor sport, male or female.