What is Aston Martin up to?

[Tim the Grey]

Yup, these are ROAD cars running at N24, run by geezers from AML Gaydon production lines. IIRC there's usually a seat for the CEO, Ulrich Betz? There have been some impressive cars off the back of these efforts.
Vantage N24 for one!

But they aren't anything to do with AMR, really. They are Prodrive, in Banbury. About 20 miles, and 1 junction, down the M40.

[rich07]

Ulrich Betz is in one of those Zagatos this weekend

[The Badger]

I really dont like the idea of AMR releasing another differant chassis , unless they get their Vantage working ..... their reputation is starting to suffer now , unfinished business .

[The Real DMN]

The Zagato is from AML, not AMR. Its nothing to do with Prodive.

[AstonGeoff]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I really dont like the idea of AMR releasing another differant chassis , unless they get their Vantage working ..... their reputation is starting to suffer now , unfinished business .

The problem with the Vantage GT2 is that is has never been run by a top GT team. I don't think it is that bad a car it just needs a team that can afford two or three top drivers and some development time. Don't forget that the JMW car almost won GT2 at the Silverstone 1000k's last year, and that was starting from pole.

But, it is a customer car programme, rather than the works or semi-works efforts like P&M or Schnitzer or numerous Porsche and Ferrari teams.

It's a shame cos it would have been nice to see another car in the fight for GTE.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I really dont like the idea of AMR releasing another differant chassis , unless they get their Vantage working ..... their reputation is starting to suffer now , unfinished business .

All about selling cars to collectors now I feel rather than making them fast enough to appeal to race teams.

Maybe it time for a back to basis program. Too many distractions, too much champers swilled, too many egos.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Nordic

All about selling cars to collectors now I feel rather than making them fast enough to appeal to race teams.

The cars would be worth more in the long run if they got some decent results...

[The Badger]

I honestly have a feeling that this will come good ..... Their foray into P1 wont be in vain .

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by AstonGeoff

The problem with the Vantage GT2 is that is has never been run by a top GT team. I don't think it is that bad a car it just needs a team that can afford two or three top drivers and some development time. Don't forget that the JMW car almost won GT2 at the Silverstone 1000k's last year, and that was starting from pole.

But, it is a customer car programme, rather than the works or semi-works efforts like P&M or Schnitzer or numerous Porsche and Ferrari teams.

It's a shame cos it would have been nice to see another car in the fight for GTE.

I disagree. Throughout the whole first year of its development, it would chew through multiple engines each race weekend. It has only come close to the rest of the GTE pack through huge performance balancing breaks. This is clearly a car that has been developed on the cheap, it isnt in the same league as the 458, m3, corvette or porsche.

[Tim the Grey]

Have you seen the M3 waiver list???
Seriously, just about everything out there has SOME bit of give from the ACO.
Yes, the Vantage has a lot of them, but they are not alone.
It needs a seious team, to work the kinks out, Long Term.
Hexis had it running VERY quickly, 3 years back, but it was fragile. JMW had a pretty quick, pretty reliable, car. But there's no continuity...

[AstonGeoff]

Originally Posted by cdsavage

I disagree. Throughout the whole first year of its development, it would chew through multiple engines each race weekend. It has only come close to the rest of the GTE pack through huge performance balancing breaks. This is clearly a car that has been developed on the cheap, it isnt in the same league as the 458, m3, corvette or porsche.

hhhmmm and the M3, Corvette and Porsche haven't been given performance breaks.... The days of teams/manufacturers building a car and making it as fast as they can and that's it have long gone I'm afraid, in a world dominated by marketing and sponsorship and with organisers wanting as many competitive cars as possible there will always be performance breaks or equalisation.

Yes I agree they had a lot of engine problems to start with, but it was pretty much only Drayson who was running the car, a nice guy but not a top team.

The reality is that AMR/Prodrive have stretched themselves too far with GT1/2/3/4 and LMP1. When the GT1 was the only programme it had a reasonable amount of success, had they gone the same route as P&M then I've no doubt the GT2 would have been a lot quicker, but they didn't.

[Tim the Grey]

I had heard that this year's Vantage V8 is now a paperweight, as it is way worse than last year's version...
As I said, Top Team, Long Term. THAT is what the car really needs.

[geeteeone]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

As I said, Top Team, Long Term. THAT is what the car really needs.

Absolutely. Look at what Oreca managed with the Saleen S7-R. Before they took it on it was occasionally fast but woefully unreliable. After they had finished with it it was pretty much one of the fastest GT1s and plenty reliable too. The Aston Vantage is a classic example of a car that has potential but needs money throwing at it. Having privateers work out the kinks is not going to work.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I had heard that this year's Vantage V8 is now a paperweight, as it is way worse than last year's version...

Even with more-than-generous 2011' breaks from the ACO (increased fuel tank capacity & gurney adjustments)? Just imagine what a dog of a car that machine would really be without all the constant performance breaks.

[Tim the Grey]

Sorry, mis-leading comment. I believe the ENGINE is a step back, the car itself is actually pretty good.

And as said before, it's not alone in having a sheaf of waivers in it's favour.

[old man]

Originally Posted by AstonGeoff

The problem with the Vantage GT2 is that is has never been run by a top GT team. I don't think it is that bad a car it just needs a team that can afford two or three top drivers and some development time. Don't forget that the JMW car almost won GT2 at the Silverstone 1000k's last year, and that was starting from pole.

But, it is a customer car programme, rather than the works or semi-works efforts like P&M or Schnitzer or numerous Porsche and Ferrari teams.

It's a shame cos it would have been nice to see another car in the fight for GTE.

I have been working hard and not keeping up with discussion here but this is a strange post. You point out that JMW almost won the Silverstone race and I would remind you that they did win the next one but with a Ferrari. Jim McWhirter, Doc, Rob Bell and the rest of the guys in a team that has won the LMS GT2 class title twice and come close on a third occasion would take exception to your comment that they do not constitute a "Top Team".

I do agree that it is a shame they did not continue with the Vantage for a second season but Michelotti must have been hurt by their defection and probably promissed a lot for them to return. The problems they had at Le Mans after giving the 458 its first win show that even the great Ferrari tuner has off days but they did get to the end of the LM24 after some soul destroying pit work. When I sneaked into their garage at one point 5 Michelotti guys were engaged in solving whatever the problem was.

It is probably true that Prodrive are spreading themselves rather thin and should concentrate on one series but as we have lots of series where they can sell cars it seeems to me that they are trying to emulate Porsche and make the racing division pay for itself.

Let's see how this oufit does at Imola

[JAG]

There is meant to be a meeting this week to decide if the AMR-One returns later this season.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by JAG

There is meant to be a meeting this week to decide if the AMR-One returns later this season.

Hmm.

If the car can race (actually run in the race, not just a few laps), the car should.

[Acid09]

I´ll make a bold prediction and say the car in it's current form (engine layout, no big aerodynamic changes) will never race again.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I´ll make a bold prediction and say the car in it's current form (engine layout, no big aerodynamic changes) will never race again.

I would agree that we wont see the car race again until it becomes at least the AMR 1B or whatever they call it. But I don't think the engine layout will change.

[The Badger]

I think they should stick with the engine , imo ..... but I strongly suggest paying a visit to a wind tunnel .

Im not sure if all this cad/cam tech is really as good as the real thing .

[Dan Friel]

Originally Posted by JAG

There is meant to be a meeting this week to decide if the AMR-One returns later this season.

That won't take too long then!

The package was a total embarrassment at Le Mans, and I can't see them risking that again.

[The Badger]

double post , sorry .

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

There is meant to be a meeting this week to decide if the AMR-One returns later this season.

What I am wondering is what Jota and the other supposed customers for this car are thinking/doing.

Originally Posted by CTD

If the car can race (actually run in the race, not just a few laps), the car should.

Barring a massive increase in reliability and performance, I think they should maybe run the car in the ALMS if it does run again this year. They could end up on the podium even with an embarrassing effort in the ALMS and the ALMS may help them out with some massive performance breaks.

Originally Posted by The Badger

I think they should stick with the engine , imo ..... but I strongly suggest paying a visit to a wind tunnel .

Im not sure if all this cad/cam tech is really as good as the real thing .

Going to the windtunnel won't help them get more than a couple of laps out of an engine. The chassis probably needs some fine tuning at the very least, but I think they have to figure out how to get much better reliability and performance out of that engine. Wasting any significant amount of money on developing the chassis at this point is probably misguided as the engine needs lots of help.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I think they should stick with the engine , imo ..... but I strongly suggest paying a visit to a wind tunnel .

Im not sure if all this cad/cam tech is really as good as the real thing .

Given that the car was relatively quick through the Porsche Curves and suffered almost exclusively from drivetrain reliability and performance shortcomings, why on earth would you go to a wind tunnel first? Sure, there may be some deficiencies which will show up when it's got a proper lump underneath it, but revealing those in a tunnel will be of little use if they can't reach that pace on a track.