Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

And what happens if this car is on pace or faster?

I think the doubters are going to have a load of crow to eat come June.

And vice versa.

[schmidder]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

And what happens if this car is on pace or faster?

I think the doubters are going to have a load of crow to eat come June.

I'll pack some extra crow before we head over in june, just in case. I don't think they'll break 3:30...If they even show up.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

If thats true, it seems selfish. "I wont race if youre not on pace..."? What about taking one for the team? I wonder if the real reason is something related to money or pace?

Selfish ? This rather seems to me as a very realistic move from a guy having considerable experience of LM and knowing that there is nothing to expect from Nissan at LM in 2015 as a driver. He is just saying: " You're not ready guys and I can't do much as a driver, but I will try to help as much as I can by advising you at LM". How can this be selfish ? It's far from being a selfish move.

[gustavobamba]

My opinion regarding all this stuff about Nissan is very very simple.

I respect all the opinion´s, all the inside´s, all the wishes but… All the stuff nissan is doing is to tell us they are not ready for Le Mans this year, they will keep working on the car because they really think the GT-R FWD could beat the others… but they need allot of time to prepare it.


All I wish is them to have time and money to do it right… and for me right is to have them fighting for victory´s.

[Senna-F1God]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

My opinion regarding all this stuff about Nissan is very very simple.

I respect all the opinion´s, all the inside´s, all the wishes but… All the stuff nissan is doing is to tell us they are not ready for Le Mans this year, they will keep working on the car because they really think the GT-R FWD could beat the others… but they need allot of time to prepare it.


All I wish is them to have time and money to do it right… and for me right is to have them fighting for victory´s.

But we all know that won't be the case.

There are too many wrong choices being made that restricted the concept in first place, so the limit might be around 3:35s... Their current pace might be around the 3:40s actually.

Soon we will solve the mystery at Lemans test days.

But it is as easy as looking back to Lemans history, i guess they will only try to beat the 1988 WM Peugeot old circuit speed record. A feasible achievement... Nope.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Senna-F1God

But we all know that won't be the case.

There are too many wrong choices being made that restricted the concept in first place, so the limit might be around 3:35s... Their current pace might be around the 3:40s actually.

Soon we will solve the mystery at Lemans test days.

But it is as easy as looking back to Lemans history, i guess they will only try to beat the 1988 WM Peugeot old circuit speed record. A feasible achievement... Nope.

Sorry to disagree but for me this is not about wrong choises. There are solutions that are better then others but in racing all resumes to balance the car and compromise diferent aspect´s of the concept.

Toyota Audi and Porsche have a similar concept (between them) but they use different "weapons" right? Nissan is trying a new way of doing things … are they going to succeed? i don´t know but... the explanation from Ricardo Divila seems promising for the future…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LSKGgQkNYc

By the way my prediction is they will run 3:26 3:28

"With 55 years of experience and 2000 races (380 in Formula 1) under his belt, Ricardo Divila is the legendary track performance engineer for NISMO."
He probably know´s what he is talking about...

[Starfish Primer]

I guess that Mr Reinke, Mr Hitzinger and Mr Vasselon have some knowledge too and they haven´t followed that route. Divila´s praising his team decision is obvious, the surprise would be him saying "this is crap, it doesn´t have any sense".

[gustavobamba]

Why when porsche said they will go to V4 engine 2L allot of people said that they were crazy to follow that route because of massive vibration´s???????

They test and test and test… and now they are going to be top contenders for the 24h of le mans

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Why when porsche said they will go to V4 engine 2L allot of people said that they were crazy to follow that route because of massive vibration´s???????

They test and test and test… and now they are going to be top contenders for the 24h of le mans

Exactly. Every new idea out of the ordinairy can allways count on the negative votes from all the nay sayers.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Exactly. Every new idea out of the ordinairy can allways count on the negative votes from all the nay sayers.

let´s wait and see what happens

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LSKGgQkNYc

Great video!
At 6:20 he gets into where losing the AWD compromises the car somewhat.

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Why when porsche said they will go to V4 engine 2L allot of people said that they were crazy to follow that route because of massive vibration´s???????

They test and test and test… and now they are going to be top contenders for the 24h of le mans

Yes!

Originally Posted by GTfour

Exactly. Every new idea out of the ordinairy can allways count on the negative votes from all the nay sayers.

Yup! Even those scary horseless carriages at the beginning.

[miatanut]

This one covers a lot of the same stuff but has the benefit of nobody dragging a floor jack through the video, drowning out the explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKerNGiERTs

[PP89]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Great video!
At 6:20 he gets into where losing the AWD compromises the car somewhat.

Yes!

Yup! Even those scary horseless carriages at the beginning.

Thanks for saying that that was also my thoughts. Or the silly guy who said that the earth Is flat

This is my first post, i use it to say "Hello" to everyone of your guys

Greetings from germany, Patrick

[pirenzo]

Interesting videos. I enjoyed Ricardo Devila's explanation a lot.

I think predictions of laptimes at Le Mans in the 3:40s are wildly pessimistic, even if you do think it has all gone awry for Nissan. I think the suggestions of 3:20s are more like it.

Originally Posted by PP89

This is my first post, i use it to say "Hello" to everyone of your guys

Greetings from germany, Patrick

Welcome Patrick!

[carbon_titanium]

if they won't have big reliability issues, to me will be >3.30 as race pace and something about 3.25 during qualifying. Rocket along the mulsanne, turtle through porsche sector.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

if they won't have big reliability issues, to me will be >3.30 as race pace and something about 3.25 during qualifying. Rocket along the mulsanne, turtle through porsche sector.

Nissan will rule sector 2 at Le Mans (Tertre Rouge to Mulsanne) I reckon, but the loss of pace through the Porsche Curves will relegate them to a no man's land on the grid between the slowest Audi/Porsche/Toyota and the Rebellions and CLM.

My predicted LMP1 grid after quali would be something like Porsche-Porsche-Porsche-Audi-Audi-Toyota-Audi-Toyota (all under 3:20) - Nissan-Nissan-Nissan (mid-3:20s) - Rebellion-Rebellion (late 3:20s-3:30-ish) - (top 3-4 LMP2 cars) - CLM.

[Adam43]

The important thing is that someone will be wrong and hence someone else will be right on the internet.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Exactly. Every new idea out of the ordinairy can allways count on the negative votes from all the nay sayers.

I roomed years ago with a rather experienced engineer form the Group B rally days, he had history with many, many famous programs including those of Toyota and Audi. He built engines, and went on to his own deal later, built stuff for many prototypes in the late 90's, and even did some work for Nissan...

We discussed the story of front engine cars and why they don't work well as protoypes...at the time the Panoz LMP-07 was just dead...this was Sebring 2004... We hadn't imagined at the time that a front engine, front drive proto would have ever existed, but he was sure that from a weight transfer, and weight balance, aero balance, it would work fine from a front wheel drive standpoint...

The point I'm making is that, just because it's gone away from the normal M/R layout we've seen for years doesn't make it wrong, and absolutely doesn't make it a failure.

Why everyone is so negative about this is beyond me.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Why everyone is so negative about this is beyond me.

Because, so far, Nissan is all talk and no substance. Nobody likes people who only talk big and have little to show for it, it's deemed disrespectful.

If Nissan had been humble from the start, everyone would be supporting them. But the whole "hurr hurr, we're the bad boys, we're not building another Audi"... is it really that surprising that many people kind of enjoy seeing them fail?

Their whole effort is simply not the most likable, let's put it this way.

[Keycube]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Why everyone is so negative about this is beyond me.

I don't get it either. I realize the Internet has created (or perhaps just facilitated) this "I told ya so!" culture where everyone needs to feel they know everything from their recliner, but why would you not just want to appreciate something new and different, and wish them the best? Particularly when there's not enough (new) information available to attack it critically? The transparency angle has been awesome from a PR standpoint, but I refuse to believe we're as plugged in as team insiders, or that we're being lied to (whomever was doing the narration at the Leno/Periscope thing said flat-out that they'll be running the hybrid system. Does that mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. But I would find it odd that anyone would have the green light to say that definitively unless it was legit).

I guess I'm a bit of a dreamer with stuff like this though; even if the car was a slug in testing and the wheels were falling off every other turn, I'd be all wide-eyed and "Don't worry, you'll get it! Plenty of time!"

I feel like this car is incredibly important. If you're a fan of motorsport, you've been rooted at least somewhat in the notion of "This is just how things are done"...

...until that rare moment when someone tells us that it isn't.

How can you not root for these guys!!!

All that being said, if the naysayers are right, I'll be choking on that crow, 'cause I will be disppointed as hell. :-/

As always, IMHO.

Robert

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I roomed years ago with a rather experienced engineer form the Group B rally days, he had history with many, many famous programs including those of Toyota and Audi. He built engines, and went on to his own deal later, built stuff for many prototypes in the late 90's, and even did some work for Nissan...

We discussed the story of front engine cars and why they don't work well as protoypes...at the time the Panoz LMP-07 was just dead...this was Sebring 2004... We hadn't imagined at the time that a front engine, front drive proto would have ever existed, but he was sure that from a weight transfer, and weight balance, aero balance, it would work fine from a front wheel drive standpoint...

The point I'm making is that, just because it's gone away from the normal M/R layout we've seen for years doesn't make it wrong, and absolutely doesn't make it a failure.

Why everyone is so negative about this is beyond me.

Your wrong… not everyone

My real point is that they will need plenty of time to make this work. This could take years of testing and experimentation IMHO. If they manage to make this work others will follow and we could see a new ERA in motorsport.

In the history of motorsport are so many examples of innovation that seems wrong at the first place but in the end he acctualy work… who know´s let´s wait and see

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Because, so far, Nissan is all talk and no substance. Nobody likes people who only talk big and have little to show for it, it's deemed disrespectful.

If Nissan had been humble from the start, everyone would be supporting them. But the whole "hurr hurr, we're the bad boys, we're not building another Audi"... is it really that surprising that many people kind of enjoy seeing them fail?

Their whole effort is simply not the most likable, let's put it this way.

No substance? Uh.... Pretty certain they've got three cars, a whole team, engineers, PR people, merchandise, transporters, and awesome shop, multiple drivers, and a whole cargo freighter of cash....

No subtance is Corey Shaw.

BTW, they've failed at exactly nothing. So. Let's stop suggesting they are.

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

No substance? Uh.... Pretty certain they've got three cars, a whole team, engineers, PR people, merchandise, transporters, and awesome shop, multiple drivers, and a whole cargo freighter of cash....



No subtance is Corey Shaw.



BTW, they've failed at exactly nothing. So. Let's stop suggesting they are.

No substance. I didnt see them racing in Silverstone or Spa.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Because, so far, Nissan is all talk and no substance. Nobody likes people who only talk big and have little to show for it, it's deemed disrespectful.

If Nissan had been humble from the start, everyone would be supporting them. But the whole "hurr hurr, we're the bad boys, we're not building another Audi"... is it really that surprising that many people kind of enjoy seeing them fail?

Their whole effort is simply not the most likable, let's put it this way.

I can't say I agree with any of this. Nissan built themselves up and who doesn't? They want to generate interest. Nissan have embarked on something radical and it hasn't gone according to plan, which can happen with radical projects and after all the publicity, they may have come across as looking a little foolish but they've hardly been disrespectful. Not only that but there'll always be those 'purists', who will just dislike what Nissan are attempting to do because it doesn't fit the norm, we had all this with the Delta Wing, despite Le Mans' Garage 56.

I take my hat off to Bowlby and Nissan for trying something different and if they can't get it to work straight out of the box, that's no a big deal. How many projects come to fruition first time round? There's always next year and hopefully they'll be able to run in the entire series.

[PP89]

I will be also disappointed as hell!

But, this is a learning year. The said they're aiming to win LM in 2016. every new designed car will have issues, that is normal to me. You have to find them and eliminate they point for point. Rome wasn't build in a day either. I saw the video with the ricardo devila interview, i enjoyed it. Don't think that he is a crazy stupid man

Marc gene has left as a driver, makes sense to me. Nissan is pushing the own drivers. While marc gene is driving the car you got nothing from his knowledge about strategy. That's my thought.

Personal i can tell you, when someone said to me "here goes nothing". It pushed me a lot to show that it works!

I'm happy that nissan made a lmp1 car. They need time. No one knows really how fast or reliable the car will be. So we have to wait and we will see it.

Dont forget the blablabla PR side and the technical side are two different things.

I wish them my best! Great project, i love it.

Btw. Sorry for my bad english

Patrick