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6 Oct 2014, 22:14 (Ref:3461500) | #326 | ||
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Yeh, I seriously doubt it would have helped Bianchi. I saw the incident and today, and not a lot would have helped (other than the removal vehicle not being there, of course).
But still, it should be looked in to, I think. Selby |
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6 Oct 2014, 22:37 (Ref:3461509) | #327 | |
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6 Oct 2014, 23:25 (Ref:3461522) | #328 | ||
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Brings up a whole new set of problems in the rain.
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6 Oct 2014, 23:44 (Ref:3461529) | #329 | ||
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Wont a closed cockpit just make everything look like a variant of a DeltaWing?
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7 Oct 2014, 06:03 (Ref:3461600) | #330 | |
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Maybe it is that closed cockpit cars are inevitable, but then where is the difference between a formula car and a prototype sports car?
Im just brainstorming here but for an interim solution that doesn't involve scrambling the safety car every time. Could F1 not use a code 60/slow zone system, similar to what was trialled at Le Mans this year? For example every time there is double waved yellows e.g. marshalls/vehicles on track, that sector of racetrack would be made a slow zone. All cars would have to stick to their pit lane speed limiter/other speed limiter for the duration of that sector until they get the green at the end of the sector. |
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7 Oct 2014, 14:42 (Ref:3461766) | #331 | ||
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i havent seen video or photos of the accident so just asking a question here.
would the first medical responders and/or doctor have the ability to open up the cockpit especially if its broken. i imagine that problem has been asked and answered in other series which have closed cockpits but im not familiar with the answer though. SBF, really like the idea of a HUD also being implemented. a rather elegant solution and compromise to the movement of banning radio comms. give the driver the raw info and let them make of it what they will. |
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7 Oct 2014, 16:37 (Ref:3461807) | #332 | ||
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In the Bianchi crash, it's difficult to know whether a cockpit would ultimately have smashed after helping to dissipate energy or whether it would he been strong enough to remain intact to change the angle of the car to prevent or lessen a head injury.
The survival cell itself appears to have been relatively intact, so manual release buttons near the neutral and battery cut off would have been easily reached. |
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7 Oct 2014, 17:01 (Ref:3461821) | #333 | ||
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Quote:
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7 Oct 2014, 18:10 (Ref:3461844) | #334 | ||
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thanks for the responses.
have just read the recent press release. not a medical expert (obviously) but the injury being described is not an impact injury but rather from the brain moving in the skull during deceleration? would i be correct in assuming that a closed cockpit would have little or no bearing on preventing this type of injury? in fairness im sure they are looking at this from every perspective but shouldn't they also be looking at the Hans device as not working as intended? |
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7 Oct 2014, 18:36 (Ref:3461851) | #335 | ||
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The whole vehicle would have needed to be slowed before impact to really make a difference. The brain rattles around in the skull, so when Jules head stopped moving, his brain kept going until it hit the inside of the skull. Like when you slam on your brakes hard and are thrown forward.
A closed cockpit likely doesn't help any in this situation |
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7 Oct 2014, 20:17 (Ref:3461887) | #336 | ||
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I have just seen the Autosport picture of the 2013 "cockpit" which was tested on the Mercedes. I have to say, it doesn't look that ugly. My one fear, certainly in the case of the Bianchi incident would be that in that particular incident, the recovery vehicle might have actually been lifted up even more, then dropped on top of the drivers head, which may be worse than what actually occurred at Suzuka.
I'm not really sure where the governing bodies would be going with this. Would they then outlaw all open cockpit racing? So Formula Ford would have cockpits, same with F3 etc? |
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7 Oct 2014, 20:26 (Ref:3461893) | #337 | ||
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Open wheels, the chassis only suitable to carry 1 person, instead of the (granted, very theoretical) ability to carry 2 in a sportscar, headlights.
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7 Oct 2014, 20:27 (Ref:3461894) | #338 | ||
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The HANS device is designed to prevent one specific cause of injury - a basal skull fracture. That is not the injury suffered by Jules, so either it did work or it wasn't needed because of the angle of impact.
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8 Oct 2014, 01:02 (Ref:3461989) | #339 | ||
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The Hans device probably stopped his injuries from being even worse
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8 Oct 2014, 01:15 (Ref:3461990) | #340 | ||
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The video speed seems huge but the car came to a complete halt only a couple of metres beyond the point where Maussia made contact with the tractor. So the deceleration was enormous. |
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8 Oct 2014, 02:34 (Ref:3461998) | #341 | |||
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"a diffuse axonal injury". http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29096.html |
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8 Oct 2014, 03:03 (Ref:3462002) | #342 | ||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_axonal_injury Looks to be horrible! |
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8 Oct 2014, 03:07 (Ref:3462003) | #343 | |||
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8 Oct 2014, 07:02 (Ref:3462047) | #344 | ||
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To my mind however, anything that can absorb the amount of energy imparted on it by the wheel above has to help prevent injury. You would also have to wonder if there was a role for an airbag/s? Should help protect the head and also allow for a more controlled deceleration of the head in a high G impact and hopefully prevent the brain bouncing around inside the skull. I have way more questions than answers! |
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8 Oct 2014, 07:33 (Ref:3462060) | #345 | ||
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I'm not sure if an air bag would be fast enough or progressive enough to actually prevent DAI happening. |
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8 Oct 2014, 08:45 (Ref:3462085) | #346 | |
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If canopies were introduced and looking at the wide range of weather conditions across the calendar would this mean that the glass would need to be heated to combat misting in the rain and the cockpit fitted with air conditioning as per the closed LMP1 , to combat the high temps of Malaysia, etc?
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8 Oct 2014, 14:31 (Ref:3462210) | #347 | |||
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i suspect the head and brain move somewhat independent of each other so if my head is stopped/prevented from moving forward does that increase the force with which my brain, still moving forward, will impact with the inside of the front part of my skull? anyways just speculating and relating it to some of what is being talked about with brain trauma and football (NFL) players. sorry if i am going off topic. |
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8 Oct 2014, 17:33 (Ref:3462274) | #348 | ||
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Shaking a baby violently can cause DAI without any contact to the head. |
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9 Oct 2014, 18:33 (Ref:3462648) | #349 | ||
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9 Oct 2014, 19:43 (Ref:3462666) | #350 | ||
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Quote:
I reopened this topic a few days ago, but haven't really responded to the various posts. I don't know if anyone can say if a closed cockpit would have helped Bianchi or not. I suspect the answer is "maybe" and doubt it would have hurt. I am also completely not convinced that a well done closed cockpit would have "shattered" upon impact with the crane (i.e. it would have been a pointless exercise) as some have speculated. Also, to my original post, I was also concerned that the roll hoop sheared off and I don't think anyone has talked about that? I know their primary (only?) function is to protect the driver upon roll over. But I do think they should (if they don't already) have some level of expected shear protection. Is there a shear test protocol for the hoops? And I know that regardless of the specs and design, there will be a point that it will fail. In this case it is a moot point as I think Bianchi went into forward facing and the hoop would have done little or nothing to protect him. Or maybe having the hoop shear off might have helped him (smoothed out the deceleration curve?) But regardless having hoops sheared off scare me. Richard |
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