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8 Apr 2018, 12:32 (Ref:3813969) | #326 | ||||||
The Honourable Mallett
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The brand values mentioned above appear to be for childish announcements of drivers (see Austin last year); some kind of mascot; an inability to control the manufacturers; and, a pointless change to the timing of the events. Quote:
And now they have Monaco and Russia refusing to comply. What will they do about that? I'd assume they would have to cancel the meetings because it does not reflect the company's moral ideals. I do have a view about the #metoo movement which started in October last year, but it is not relevant to this discussion. Nonetheless if it locks away slime-balls like those who are alleged to have carried out these atrocities then more power to the movement. |
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8 Apr 2018, 12:57 (Ref:3813976) | #327 | ||||||
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Controlling the manufacturers - you must be saying this in jest, right? Nobody, ever, has managed to control the manufacturers. If the wind so much as changes direction, Ferrari threaten to build IndyCars. We're being critical of Liberty for not immediately solving a problem that nobody else has ever solved? Timing of the events - far from a pointless change. TV stations work in half hour blocks. If you start a race at 1300, the TV program has to start before that to allow for the pre-race. Sometimes that's fine as some TV stations do a 30 minute or 60-minute build up. But for some, they have a short build up and go straight in. Starting a race at a few minutes past the hour allows for the race to be scheduled easier. It works for IndyCar and NASCAR, it's also why endurance races are now time rather than distance (WEC is 6 hours, not 1000 km), and it's why events like Blancpain start off the hour too. It's far from pointless - just F1 is late to the party. Many said "this wasn't a problem in the old days", forgetting how F1 got bumped for Coronation Street, and Formula E got bumped for Peppa Pig. TV time is valuable and times have changed a lot. This fits with getting F1 on TV easier. It might be pointless to pay per view expensive viewing, but not for free to air. Again, this is an easy quick fix that takes very little effort to put in place. If this is the list of everything Liberty has done wrong, then some straws are being firmly clutched right now. Quote:
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Once again: If the new owners do something, they're just marketing. If they don't do something, they're amateurs. If they don't reinvent the sport within a month of ownership, they're not concentrating. They have not rehired contractors for a now redundant position and people find it unacceptable. The overwhelming irony of the last few posts is we're sitting being told that Liberty are not concentrating on the real problems, whilst complaining there won't be a woman in a dress holding a sign now. Who exactly is not concentrating on the real problems? Last edited by Akrapovic; 8 Apr 2018 at 13:04. |
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8 Apr 2018, 13:10 (Ref:3813978) | #328 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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Ok.
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8 Apr 2018, 13:37 (Ref:3813984) | #329 | ||
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As for your last paragraph, I tried explaining that earlier, guess it wasnt read. So how about this: McLaren have all their engineers working to improve the performance of their car. Analyzing aero, making the engine swap and fitting it to the chassis, etc... But they still found time change the livery fir this year. I guess it was mismanagement on their part to do so, sknce the livery has no effect on the number one problem: on track performance. Guess that goes for every team on the grid too. Heaven forbid they do more than one thing at time! Except for a very few posters, every thread on here is usually made up of sensible, reasonable posts. Except this one. |
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8 Apr 2018, 13:40 (Ref:3813985) | #330 | ||
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8 Apr 2018, 13:56 (Ref:3813996) | #331 | ||
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I generally have quit posting in this thread as I didn’t think I had anything new to contribute. We are many pages in and it is the same arguments going around in circles. I also firmly believe that people like Peter are unlikely to change their position given additional discussion. I just don’t see the point in further engagement. But I think Peter question below is interesting...
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Sorry if I am interpreting that wrong. Let’s say for arguments sake that there was a bandwagon passing by and F1 jumped on it. Who can say what was in the hearts of those making the decision. Did they have a sudden epiphany and decide they should adopt a new moral stance, or maybe it was purely a commercial decision and morals played no part? Or maybe it wasn’t such a black and white decision (everyone loves to think the world is black and white) and maybe it was some balance of both (of which we will never know the ratios). Does it even matter? I think back to stories of the segregation era here in the US. Across the entire country you would have had the entire spectrum of scenarios. Businesses who where fully segregated by choice due to their version of morals, others who were fully integrated due to a moral position and maybe others that were either segregated or integrated that might actually be operating against their moral principles. Maybe they had to make a business decision that may have been contrary to their moral position. Clearly when laws were changed, some were forced to operate in a way that was contrary to their moral positions. Does anyone argue it was not for the overall good? The country (and world) still has a long way to go yet, but progress has been made. My point here is not that I am equating racial segregation to the issues of gender (some may and I am also ok with that), but I am saying... who cares why or when F1 made this decision. Their timing or reasoning can’t be a valid reason to attack the basic concept. Recent attacks on this paint it in a purely cynical way and also label it as a “fad” (time will tell!) I would argue that race and gender issues are not a fad. Change has been a slow progression over centuries. And progress is never a smooth linear line graphed over time. Change comes in lurching jumps. They can and will be disruptive. Just as what we are seeing now. But, the change does appear on a timeline and sometime it is significant enough that there is a clear before and an after. So trying to find meaning to why it happened at particular moment is best understood with hindsight. We can discuss it today, but don’t expect grand insight until we can look back. With that being said... My opinion is that clearly the decision was not made in a vacuum. That what else that was going on in the world at that time was a factor. We can’t ignore the timing in relation to the #MeToo movement. That movement and the associated discussion allowed other long simmering gender related issues to bubble up from below. Some, such as grid girls, may not have been on many people’s radar, so this seems like it came out of nowhere. For others (I put myself in that camp), knew that it was a topic that lived just below the surface of the general collective consciousness. And, regardless of what you think of that movement, it has a limited impact on how people should view the new stance by F1 on grid girls. That decision should be able to stand on it own merits. Richard Last edited by Richard C; 8 Apr 2018 at 14:04. |
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8 Apr 2018, 14:26 (Ref:3814028) | #332 | ||
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I don't think the emergence of the #MeToo campaign/movement and the subsequent announcement to ban Grid Girls, is a coincidence.
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8 Apr 2018, 14:58 (Ref:3814038) | #333 | ||||
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Edit: hey Richard, in another thread I said don't change. I meant that as a compliment, in case it came off as anything other than one. I enjoy your posts! |
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8 Apr 2018, 17:07 (Ref:3814070) | #334 | ||
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a salary slave no more... |
8 Apr 2018, 18:57 (Ref:3814140) | #335 | |
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9 Apr 2018, 15:59 (Ref:3814441) | #336 | ||
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is this really a change in Liberty policy though?
still no change in their policy of no grid girls (the placard/sign holder variety) and local promoters can still do their thing in terms of their own needs...im not sure i see much change in what Monaco and Russia are suggesting they want to do or a backtracking by Liberty. imo, sensible heads have prevailed as everyone is figuring out the new paradigm. i also think a good balance was struck in Bahrain. kids on the grid, a nice horn and string section playing the anthem instead of canned music and a line of ladies...although they were still there in fewer numbers including a couple of Gulf Air flight attendants on the podium even. those of us who think the practice was superfluous/over the top have seen a big reduction of that, the local promoter can still appease their corporate sponsors (in this case Gulf Air), still pretty girls around for those that are there but now done in more subtle (and frankly classier) way. the glamour and glitz of F1 has remained intact at an opulent race course with celebs on the grid and elaborate fireworks show at the end. a good example of compromise and civility! |
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9 Apr 2018, 16:16 (Ref:3814449) | #337 | ||
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I watched (just) the race on TV on Sunday so didn't see any of the before & after events so can't comment on what was used with/instead of girls.
My main reason for this was that I decided to watch all three BTCC races 'live' on TV and although I wasn't specifically looking for them did notice that there were no shots of the Grid Girls from Brands Hatch. Maybe, because of the weather there weren't any (although I'm sure I briefly glimpsed a girl holding a grid position board once). Usually it was an ITV 4 standard to show the cars arriving at their grid position shot to include the Grid Girl... |
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9 Apr 2018, 16:16 (Ref:3814448) | #338 | ||
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Seeing as they are no longer at Monaco going to be performing a grid girl function, but be merely their for prettying the grid up, do we now need to call them grid embellishments? That sounds worse than grid girls.
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9 Apr 2018, 16:25 (Ref:3814451) | #339 | |||
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9 Apr 2018, 17:00 (Ref:3814463) | #340 | |||
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And, Turkington stated to Louise on the grid that a piece of sticky tape on the windscreen that he was adjusting was so that he could line up in the right place on the grid without someone to hold up a board. |
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25 May 2018, 09:44 (Ref:3824520) | #341 | ||
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Grid girls are back!
Well done to the Monaco GP organisers for not jumping on the bandwagon. https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/18348 |
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25 May 2018, 10:06 (Ref:3824525) | #342 | |||
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25 May 2018, 16:53 (Ref:3824582) | #343 | ||
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Well it is a pretty lean time as far as real news is concerned
After all this race is more about celeb's and fashion than actual racing |
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25 May 2018, 17:33 (Ref:3824588) | #344 | ||
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Just to add, the young ladies will not be grid girls, per se, but will be promoting their temporary employer, Tag Heuer. I do not believe that they will be on the grid to hold the drivers' placards as in the past, and possibly not even on the grid at all.
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25 May 2018, 18:25 (Ref:3824609) | #345 | ||
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So they aren't really grid girls.
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25 May 2018, 18:41 (Ref:3824613) | #346 | |
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25 May 2018, 23:41 (Ref:3824665) | #347 | |||
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They are there as the Monaco organisers stated, to add glamour to the grid area, so I guess they are Glamour Girls, all provided by TAG Heuer and dressed accordingly. They will not be holding grid boards and are there just to look pretty.
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26 May 2018, 00:48 (Ref:3824673) | #348 | ||
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If they are not going to hold grid boards, won't they got lost amongst the pre race mob that descends on the grid, what with all those TV crews getting in each other's way trying to get that interview before the race starts?
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26 May 2018, 04:44 (Ref:3824683) | #349 | ||
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There is it would seem some commercial consideration of the 'Glamour Girls' at Monaco, as they will all be dressed in TAG Heuer outfits.... I guess we will just have to bide our time as the clock ticks down to the grid when all will be (hopefully tastefully?) revealed.
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26 May 2018, 07:53 (Ref:3824710) | #350 | |||
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Sebastian Vettel's comments from Wednesday's drivers press conference.
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