Brabham BT36

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

BT36-9
Wheels, trailer & transit to Jorge Koechlin, car to Ken Thorogood, suspension parts to Australia

There has been a development on the latter today.

I really want to keep in Peter's good books so I thought I would see if I could find the suspension. The name was Graham Hepburn, now I am sure I had heard of him but just couldn't place it, nor could the first 4 people that I contacted today.
Then I got a phone call from Denis so I thought I would ask him,

'Denis do you know of a Graham Hepburn because he got all the suspension'
there was a brief pause,

'Andrew, all those BT36 suspension bits I sold you last month came from Graham'

'Andrew, are you still there?'

Graham, the Wagga Wagga Kid as he was known in the UK, bought the bits in the early 70's, the name of course is familiar now, its BT23-5. Denis bought that and all his suspension in the early eighties! What I have will go back to the UK to be reunited to its rightful place.

Andrew

[allenbrown]

Returning to the subject of Fushida's mystery Brabham BT30 or BT36 at the 3 May 1972 Japanese GP, new information has appeared. To recap, here are the results I had so far:

http://www.oldracingcars.com/results...hp?RaceID=J72A

Thanks to a thread in the other place, we now have a picture of the Fushida car.



Is that a BT36 or an upgraded BT30? Or a Colt-built replica?

Here, for comparison, is Takahara's car at the same race:



Allen

[Andrew Fellowes]

Well isn't that interesting, PS30-SB sure has open a fascinating window onto that race, Wow. I wonder if he can help answer the question?

Allen the only comment I can make is that Fushida's BT36 has a roll hoop as per 36 and not 30 which I guess you know already.


My spelling here could way out and this list hasn't been crosschecked in anyway;
1974 3rd Nov Suzuka, 2 BT36's driven by Tstsumi Tomohiko and Kawaguchi Yashmina neither of whom appear in BT36-12's list of owners.

1975 in Kenzou's teams are Muromachi Kenzou and Satu Fumiyasu both drive '36's and Asoka Shigeki in in BT36-12. (Kasuya Junichirou in the BT30 which suggests it was never up rated to 36 spec which is one explanation less.)

1976 driving BT36's are Kenzou again and Kuboder Yasumasa and Misaki Kiyoshi in BT36-12

1977 Kiyoshi again in BT36-12 with Hart engine and with Ford FVA.

[allenbrown]

In that case, the strong suggestion is that there were two BT36s in Japan as early as 1972. So which BT36 was Fushida's white one?

[fines]

This is my version for the Japanese BT36s - I can't be sure of owners (Japanese race records are especially difficult in that respect!), but as for drivers I see the following sequence:

'BT36-12'
1972-73 Takahara
1974 Kawaguchi
1975 Asaoka, (Sato)
1976 (Kubodera)
1976-77 Misaki

unknown chassis*
1972 Fushida
1973 Nagamatsu
1974 Tsutsumi
1975-77 Muromachi

* the Fushida car was originally reported as a BT38, could it be that the ordered monocoque car wasn't ready in time to ship, so he was given a tube frame that just happened to sit around? Bill of sale perhaps still states a BT38 chassis number due to the hassle to get the car shipped, and the factory records ignore the car because of the haste, and it's the last of its kind and out of sight on the other side of the world anyway - stranger things have happened!

[driftwood]

do you have any names of teams or race prep shops for the cars often the same garage will look after the car when it changes hands

[fines]

Sorry, not much there: a few sponsor's names, and the name of Misaki's engine tuner in '77, KRS. The only thing I know about KRS is that they also did the BDA of Tetsu Okada's Surtees TS15 that year.

[driftwood]

are you reading the race mags of the day?

[fines]

Naah, my Japanese is not THAT good! :lol:

Mainly, my info is from Tooru Kitajima's Formula Nippon Data Center website, and some from the Japan Automobile Federation website, plus titbits here and there.

[fines]

Naah, my Japanese is not THAT good!

Mainly, my info is from Tooru Kitajima's Formula Nippon Data Center website, and some from the Japan Automobile Federation website, plus titbits here and there.

[driftwood]

I have aman in japan with many race mags on certain cars or race subjects he will dig them out give me some info photo wise and translate some small info
he went to many f2 GC races from 72-80 and took photos of cars racing so any garge prep names districst of driver or car locations means i can ask more specific questions for him to research for us
he has appeared on the TNF thread
i met him last year when i was in Tokyo and we went to old magazine book shop to look at their race mags but gee the where horrendously expensive
i found him from the aerogi website when he posted some good photos of GC cars

[Andrew Fellowes]

Well you learn something every day,
A/S Nov29 p. 57

What was BT36-1 doing in Cheshire, November 1969, that was the year Anthony Mayman bought it from Bill Ness, or did he? or is the photo a case of artistic licence & they really were selling a BT30?

Andrew

[Bryan Miller]

Andrew, I would believe 1979 , not 1969.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

Andrew, I would believe 1979 , not 1969.

Oh fiddle de dee, sometimes I really hate the time limit,

Thank you sooooo much.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

It also looks as though the FIA form for BT36-5 is wrong, there is quite a bit more explaining to be done to arrive at any reasonable explanation as to how this could have happened but save to say that at this stage the chassis sold at Goodwood does look genuine BT36 and its not #5!!!!!!!

Andrew

Well I have to conclude that is not right, it is indeed 5.

There are 7 very unique features on the chassis sold at Goodwood. Everyone of those features is replicated on the chassis sold by Bonhams last year.

There is absolutely no doubt that one is a copy of the other.

The chassis sold by Bonhams at Goodwood must be the original one from the car brought in from France by John Harper and in 1993 sold to John Beasley. It was subsequently replaced and it was the replacement that was sold at R & M as BT36-5.

Whether the Harper/Beasley/Kogan/Steinke car is BT36-5 or not is another issue altogether, it did have an AM number but no chassis plate. There is no reliable and proven correlation between AM number and chassis number to prove otherwise.

The Goodwood chassis is now a dead chassis unless someone can prove otherwise.

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

There are 7 very unique features on the chassis sold at Goodwood. Everyone of those features is replicated on the chassis sold by Bonhams last year.

There is absolutely no doubt that one is a copy of the other.

Andrew

Sorry Bonhams should read R & M.

[driftwood]

advert is 1979 just look at the McLaren M23 for sale it wa snot yet desihned in 69 !

[Ted Walker]

The Mayman BT36 came from France

[Ted Walker]

Although it COULD have come via Bobby Howlings

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

The Mayman BT36 came from France

Where does this reference come from Ted 'cause it could be very important, I'll expand on that;

That was certainly what Harper wrote on the FIA form for BT36-1 but from what I can see it's not remotely true.
The problem however is that all four of the following are no longer with us,
1976 Bob Howlings sold to
1976-8 John Tait
1978-9 Bill Ness sold to;
1979-86 Anthony Mayman

Thanks to a lucky find of some personal photos of BT36-1 in 1972 they clearly show that the chassis was modified for Hill as per BT36-2 adding brackets to lower the front anti roll bar and thus raise the steering wheel. BT36-1 is devoid of any markings relating to these brackets suggesting that its either not BT36-1 or the chassis has been wiped clean of these fittings.
The Rondel BT36's had one feature that I have not seen on any other BT36 and that is they had (as reported in Autosport) additional gussets welded to the top of the rear chassis corners. These overlap where you would expect to find the AM number stamped.
BT36-1 has these gussets so on balance I tend to think it has been correctly identified and that someone had the brackets removed.

Howlings is the potential point of cock-up. He must have owned BT36-1 and BT36-8 at very nearly the same time, '75 for the latter and '76 for the former. #8 appears to have done a total vanishing act, could this suggest that it left the UK at this time? Did one of these two cars go to France?

So back to your comment Ted, where did came from France originate from?

Andrew

[pantah]

If it is of interest to anyone (probably not..) BT 36-3 currently has frame AM71-49. Considering the accidednt damage it sustained in the Bob Hawthorn accident, in which it was involved, would this have been the original frame, or a replacement?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by pantah

If it is of interest to anyone (probably not..)

just a little!

That number fits that car, but its the same number as on Lot 238 sold by Bonhams this year at Goodwood, so there are two chassis' with the same number. Its also the number that was claimed for BT36-5 on the FIA papers.

Andrew

[pantah]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

just a little!

That number fits that car, but its the same number as on Lot 238 sold by Bonhams this year at Goodwood, so there are two chassis' with the same number. Its also the number that was claimed for BT36-5 on the FIA papers.

Andrew

So are you saying AM71-49 originally belonged to BT36-5? If so, how does BT36-3 fit in, and do we know what its AM number should be?

What a tangled web (again) !

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by pantah

So are you saying AM71-49 originally belonged to BT36-5?...
What a tangled web (again) !

No, that is what Harper/Beasley claimed.

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

& thinking of Harper owned cars, anyone know when BT36-1 got a new chassis?

According to Retro Track & Air it wasn't them, they were under the impression that when they restored it for Harper it was original, -that I can safely say is wide of the mark, because when compared to 36-2 its easy to tell.

Andrew