Acura/HPD's future plans

[Deleted]

Lol right. Though Gulf ran GT3 converted GT2 Gallardo in 2010 Silverstone 1000 KM already, just as badly. The GT1 Murcielago weren't quite as hopeless, even though most people will remember them from the JLOC shambles

Also:

Abruzzi
ZEOD
GreenGT
Hope Hybrid
Old Autocon Lola AERs, maybe alright once but time does catch on
Kolles CLM (to be seen though)

Both the 2012 Dome and this new one could be added to the list as well, although at least they got S103 running this year

LG Corvette wasn't terrible, I mean they even outqualified the factory cars at Petit in 09, it was just the laughable court case with GM that made the whole thing fiasco

Anyway obviously of all of these the worst was the AMR-One trash can, but some of the others here aren't too far off

[Koenigsegg]

Abruzzi race version shouldn't be on that list. It qualified reasonably well in its first race and did pretty well in its second (and last) race.

It wasn't legal due to the road car not being road legal in Europe, that's why it didn't race more.

[Deleted]

Don't think we can take anything out of it's performance given that it was out of the rules (the little that do exist) homologation special and we didn't know what allowances it had. In any case it's the legacy and quick exit of that particular vehicle that qualify it for the list me thinks, not speed. And the much hated looks, as with DW

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by kvenom

HPD's indycar bodykits are a bit of a mess as well aren't they? Consistently beaten by Chevy this season. Maybe its time to end their association with Wirth?

When I read the name Wirth I never associate with anything good. I'm reminded of the Simtek deathtrap that killed Roland Ratzenberger at Imola in 1994.

[kvenom]

Originally Posted by Zpectre

When I read the name Wirth I never associate with anything good. I'm reminded of the Simtek deathtrap that killed Roland Ratzenberger at Imola in 1994.

His policy of using only CFD instead of windtunnels doesn't work all that well.

[Articus]

07'-'08 when Wirth made the Acura P2's he used tunnels, those cars had magical levels of downforce/cornering grip. Those cars were taking Sebring turn 1 completely flatout out on fresh tires. He should go back to whatever formula they had going back then.

[Deleted]

It's not completely fair comparison considering how big power and downforce the monster ALMS LMP2s of that day were allowed to produce, and how IMSA had them stacked against the Audis and leftover P1 privateers.

Anyway the last time HPD really wowed us was already four years ago, with Highcroft at Sebring...

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Chiana

It's not completely fair comparison considering how big power and downforce the monster ALMS LMP2s of that day were allowed to produce, and how IMSA had them stacked against the Audis and leftover P1 privateers.

Anyway the last time HPD really wowed us was already four years ago, with Highcroft at Sebring...

but nevermind the pace between P2 and P1. Look at how Acura took the fight to the Penske Porsche's. The Porsches may have been faster in a straightline but the Acura's were making unreal downforce. That seems to be Wirth Research's problem right now. No downforce. Not even a little bit, just none

[Matt]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

delta wing and all his variations in 2012-
pescarolo 03 in 2012
LG corvette in 2009

anyway 2015 isn't at all the best year for honda...

The original D'Wing was fine, actually.

[Deleted]

Let's recap

A) HPD is now officially out of 2017 LMP2 spec chassis list
B) ARX-04 dead in the water, and would already be pointless to develop/purchase now
C) I guess they could ask ACO if they could build LMP3, but the answer would likely just be "no because you're sort of manufacturer in this cheap privateer class - you know Ginetta so totally isn't!!!11" and there's now stupid 5 chassis spec limit because of greedy $$$ anyway
D) LMP1 customers still don't seem to want put their money forward to buy chassis from HPD, and they don't build anything until they got the start up money

So HPD as chassis maker, is it



?

[CTD]

HPD reap what they sow. It is that simple.

[Deleted]

What are you talking about?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What are you talking about?

Had HPD been more succesfull with their latest prototypes their bid would have been taken more serious.
Also having a conservative business strategy like HPD and Dome, has proved to fail. To work as an manufacture, you need to invest in the teams to get cars out running to further develop your business.

[HORNDAWG]

HPD = HONDA Performance Development and it is a HONDA of N. America subsidiary/division. The criteria for chassis constructor stated no mfg direct involvement, = HPD out! I am thinking we will still see HPD (Honda) on the TUSC grid at least in an engine supplier capacity, and possibly also body work (ala Indy Car).









L.P.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by CTD

Had HPD been more succesfull with their latest prototypes their bid would have been taken more serious.
Also having a conservative business strategy like HPD and Dome, has proved to fail. To work as an manufacture, you need to invest in the teams to get cars out running to further develop your business.

You really think the ACO bases their "entry bids" on recent performances? On one season performance of all things? That must be why they chose outsider Dallara and Riley-Multimatic beforehand, instead HPD that's been there for like a decade supplying countless LMP teams

Anyway, what Horn said. And I think the other made better arguments and $$$ reasonings anyway. HPD seems to have sort of given up on things.

I'm left waiting for the LMP1 return, someday

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

You really think the ACO bases their "entry bids" on recent performances? On one season performance of all things? That must be why they chose outsider Dallara and Riley-Multimatic beforehand, instead HPD that's been there for like a decade supplying countless LMP teams

Anyway, what Horn said. And I think the other made better arguments and $$$ reasonings anyway. HPD seems to have sort of given up on things.

I'm left waiting for the LMP1 return, someday

Dallara and Riley-Multimatic (Lola) has huge experience with customer programs. They are some of the oldest chassis builders still existing, which is real good reason to choose them.

[Pandamasque]

When was the last time Dallara built a competitive vehicle of any sort?
And I don't mean being competitive in bizarre tenders, granted, they're very good at that.

Originally Posted by CTD

conservative business strategy

I suppose that means just competing without being involved in some corrupt ties with the organizers?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

When was the last time Dallara built a competitive vehicle of any sort?
And I don't mean being competitive in bizarre tenders, granted, they're very good at that.

I suppose that means just competing without being involved in some corrupt ties with the organizers?

GT-One and Audi R8?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

When was the last time Dallara built a competitive vehicle of any sort?
And I don't mean being competitive in bizarre tenders, granted, they're very good at that.

Every Le Mans-winning Audi chassis up to 2012 or something?

[Pandamasque]

As far as I'm aware none of those were designed by Dallara... and that was a decade and a half ago.

You don't call Ferrari F1 cars TMG because they use their tunnel sometimes, right?

But more to the point. When was the last time Dallara supplier a non-spec customer chassis that was competitive? Aren't these the very criteria that potential P2 manufacturers should be judged upon?

But that's something Dallara just doesn't do. But some actually criticise HPD for being conservative with spending their own money to compete more actively. That seems like a bad case of double standards, right, CTD?

At least Riley had a car in CAD a few years ago, while Multimatic bought a lot of Lola's stuff and is supporting Speedsource, aside from projects with Ford and Chrysler.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

As far as I'm aware none of those were designed by Dallara... and that was a decade and a half ago.

You don't call Ferrari F1 cars TMG because they use their tunnel sometimes, right?

But more to the point. When was the last time Dallara supplier a non-spec customer chassis that was competitive? Aren't these the very criteria that potential P2 manufacturers should be judged upon?

But that's something Dallara just doesn't do. But some actually criticise HPD for being conservative with spending their own money to compete more actively. That seems like a bad case of double standards, right, CTD?

At least Riley had a car in CAD a few years ago, while Multimatic bought a lot of Lola's stuff and is supporting Speedsource, aside from projects with Ford and Chrysler.

Dallara build the R8, yes they didn't supply it, but they were still responsible for building the car with a proper strength and precision that Audi require. Not an easy task. A task alone which proves Dallaras worth.

And no, it isn't double standards. HPD didn't invest in getting a proper customer base as argumentation for their bid. Dallara is a well established company financially independant. HPD is under American Honda Motor Co. where the plug on a customer program easily can be pulled or reshuffled.
If the target for ACO is financial stable manufactures for LMP2, Dallara is a better bid than HPD in that sense.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by CTD

If the target for ACO is financial stable manufactures for LMP2, Dallara is a better bid than HPD in that sense.

That target is (somewhat?) mentioned in DSC's 'opening act' with regard to reviewing the stunning P2 remodeling process (my words): http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...a-in-lmp2.html

When it comes to criteria that the FIA/ACO/IMSA have used to come up with their selection, we really don't have a clue and we can only guess.

I wonder what would happen if one the non selected constructors (or one of their customers) would argue the whole process is out of line with the EU rules for (European) tenders???

[seanyb505]

Yeah...I see HPD fading from sportscars. I guess they could use the engine in 17, but do they have anyone actually racing with one now? HPD body work...that seems to be doing super well right now...

As for Dallara, in an order to keep costs down, we've chosen a company that is going to have to design a chassis from the ground up, with little recent activities relevant to P2. They were good several years ago, makes perfect sense! What about Spice? They used to be good right? I don't know why Dallara got the nod when there are hundreds of companies who used to be be good. Heavy involvement with Audi 10-15 years ago does not translate to automatic competitiveness.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

I wonder what would happen if one the non selected constructors (or one of their customers) would argue the whole process is out of line with the EU rules for (European) tenders???

I was waiting for that from day one we've heard about the four manufacturer limit.
Seeing nobody's doing/done it implies to me that the ACO somehow managed to end up on the lawful side of restricting access to a market.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

I was waiting for that from day one we've heard about the four manufacturer limit.
Seeing nobody's doing/done it implies to me that the ACO somehow managed to end up on the lawful side of restricting access to a market.

Maybe they are just scared of provoking the ACO in fear of never getting their names to Le Mans anymore.

Or ACO has shut mouths with gold.