Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[CTD]

Originally Posted by vincegail

The Sauber C11 is not the same car as the CLR aka 'Norbert Haugs Flying Circus'!!!!

I know, my point was that in all the era's where Mercedes have raced at Le Mans, their cars has flown.

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

No, but the C8 flew on its debut in 1985. Literally. Tire blow-out sent it flying from the Mulsanne hump at 220mph...

Every day is a learning day
Thx for the info!

[deggis]

This first image is so absurd.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Beetle

Obviously if there is any big announcement regarding Nissan it probably won't be about LMP2... they've got plenty of Nismo gizmos out there already. Most likely it would be something along the lines of LMP1, whether that be the production of a new engine or the production and development of an LMP1 chassis. Of course, it could be about GTE, as well, but with the GT3-GTE merger coming up fairly soon, I doubt they'd spend time working on anything groundbreaking over in the GTE field now. Of course, BMW did...

No, most likely it will be about Garage 56... or actually not even likely but certainly. Plus some nice words about P1 'ambitions' just to keep ACO happy.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Rennen

Seems to me, that there's no point unless you've got a Diesel programme!

Are you that biased (for obvious reason ) or just never heard of the 2014 regulations?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

No, most likely it will be about Garage 56... or actually not even likely but certainly. Plus some nice words about P1 'ambitions' just to keep ACO happy.

Theres more to it than just unveiling a car that runs for one race, one time. It should be obvious by now what their ambitions are.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

It should be obvious by now what their ambitions are.

Obvious? What are they besides G56 in 2014?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by deggis

Are you that biased (for obvious reason ) or just never heard of the 2014 regulations?

I bet the "diesel vs. petrol" debate is not going to come to an end with the 2014 regulations Some are already complaining about the balance between diesel and petrol fuels and the difficulty to reach the targeted fuel efficiency figures in the case of petrol.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

I bet the "diesel vs. petrol" debate is not going to come to an end with the 2014 regulations Some are already complaining about the balance between diesel and petrol fuels and the difficulty to reach the targeted fuel efficiency figures in the case of petrol.

That was not my point, but in context of Rennen's complaints of the current situation in the Toyota thread. (Also you do know that he is a dad of certain British Toyota driver? )

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

Obvious? What are they besides G56 in 2014?

Besides the media talk and the obvious signs?

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by deggis

Obvious? What are they besides G56 in 2014?

That's what we're waiting to find out.

[Simmi]

The thing with Nissan is I'm not sure they can announce a P1 programme until they have tested the technology next year. Unless they've already convinced the ACO somehow.

[pablocomics]

I still think that the rumoured new german constructor will be just a rebrand.... I´m still thinking about the people who designed and construct the Lotus LMP2, maybe they will enter with their own name....IMO

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

Besides the media talk and the obvious signs?

Obvious sign = two nice sentences on a press release vaguely referring to future P1 program? Worth nothing until the morning they do a P1 announcement. And if with media talk you refer to Darren Cox, I don't believe a word what that guy says.

One thing I don't get about this expectation of going to P1 in 2015: if what they've put to the G56 car is already doable in P1/2014, why don't they do it then? If it so outside of the regs, how is it going to become somehow doable in 2015? Alternatively, it is doable but they're just cheapskates and want to milk maximum PR with minimum risks.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by deggis

One thing I don't get about this expectation of going to P1 in 2015: if what they've put to the G56 car is already doable in P1/2014, why don't they do it then? If it so outside of the regs, how is it going to become somehow doable in 2015 then? Alternatively, it is doable but they're just cheapskates and want to milk maximum PR with minimum risks.

2014 P1 regulations make provisions for alternative energy (electric, biofuel etc.) but the rules aren't fully crafted for those variants, I suspect that Nissan's Garage 56 entry is also helping the ACO to get the energy equivalency right on that aspect.

[TheMightyM]

OAK LMP1 in 2014!:

OAK Racing's 2014 LMP1 concept will become a reality, following confirmation from the French outfit that the all-new prototype contender will be on the grid in next year's FIA World Endurance Championship.

SPEED.com has learned the yet-to-be-named prototype, built by OAK's manufacturing arm, OnRoak Automotive, has already completed extensive wind tunnel testing with a scale model and will begin build of the closed-top car next month.

More here. For now, OAK is acting as the manufacturer. No word yet on who will campaign the car (could be OAK, could be a customer).

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

2014 P1 regulations make provisions for alternative energy (electric, biofuel etc.) but the rules aren't fully crafted for those variants

The aren't many specific regulations about the any ERS in the regs, so it is more up to ACO's approval/homologation process anyway. I don't see what would stop them from doing it in P1 right away (if the G56 stuff is applicaple to P1 at all, e.g. all-electric wouldn't probably wouldn't be) if they just wanted to do it.

I suspect that Nissan's Garage 56 entry is also helping the ACO to get the energy equivalency right on that aspect.

Yeah, by sandbagging (naturally due no actual competitive class) and so on.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

OAK LMP1 in 2014!:



More here. For now, OAK is acting as the manufacturer. No word yet on who will campaign the car (could be OAK, could be a customer).

Extraordinarily good news. Was hopeful that they'd push the button, and there were rumours floating around, but to get something solid here is great.

All in all I can't help feeling we might be starting to get a bit of momentum going, as people adjust to some of the financial realities and see that there's a valid game in town that gives the a good seat at the main event (Le Mans and the WEC).

Let's assume we get an Oak on the grid next year - and I suspect Jacques Nicolet can see the benefit in getting a good powerplant (HPD?) and putting the likes of Pla / Baguette / Brundle in the driving seats, and merge that with Rebellion, the Honda rumours that won't go away, plus Audi/Porsche/Toyota, and you've got a landscape that I think a lot of people can work with.

I don't want to tempt fate, but right now I'm allowing myself to be a little optimistic about 2014.

[TF110]

You really think theyll run an unproven technology and expect to get bop balanced off of it? Wait, why are they going to do that if they are just doing g56? So which is it then? Nissan just wants to run unclassified with relatively new technology that might not even finish the race for one year, one race? Or is it a stepping stone with tech that may feature in your lmp1? Think about that for a minute.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

You really think theyll run an unproven technology and expect to get bop balanced off of it? Wait, why are they going to do that if they are just doing g56? So which is it then? Nissan just wants to run unclassified with relatively new technology that might not even finish the race for one year, one race? Or is it a stepping stone with tech that may feature in your lmp1? Think about that for a minute.

Just like the DW was a stepping stone to P1? Because they've alreayd set a precedent, there is good reason to be really cynical about their "ambitions".

I will laugh if the G56 announcement turns out to be just modified SGT with KERS.

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

OAK LMP1 in 2014!:



More here. For now, OAK is acting as the manufacturer. No word yet on who will campaign the car (could be OAK, could be a customer).

Great news, P1 seems to be attracting some manufacturers and some privaters too...

Maybe Audi overspending wasn't killing the class, but actually keeping it alive until others were ready to join the party ? Yes, just a silly reflexion, I know

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

OAK LMP1 in 2014!:



More here. For now, OAK is acting as the manufacturer. No word yet on who will campaign the car (could be OAK, could be a customer).

Good news indeed. Onroak still appear to be looking for a partner though. I am looking forward to hearing the official announcement this week.

[GT6]

Well there will be 20 of us asking the same question on Friday at the pit visit so perhaps we will get an answer

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by isynge

Extraordinarily good news. Was hopeful that they'd push the button, and there were rumours floating around, but to get something solid here is great.

All in all I can't help feeling we might be starting to get a bit of momentum going, as people adjust to some of the financial realities and see that there's a valid game in town that gives the a good seat at the main event (Le Mans and the WEC).

Let's assume we get an Oak on the grid next year - and I suspect Jacques Nicolet can see the benefit in getting a good powerplant (HPD?) and putting the likes of Pla / Baguette / Brundle in the driving seats, and merge that with Rebellion, the Honda rumours that won't go away, plus Audi/Porsche/Toyota, and you've got a landscape that I think a lot of people can work with.

I don't want to tempt fate, but right now I'm allowing myself to be a little optimistic about 2014.

So am I! When people finally realize there is a market for sportscar racing, even in the current financial situation, guys like Jacques Nicolet and Colin Kolles will jump in as soon as possible. Of course, there will always be the occasionally surprise disappointments and dropouts (like JRM, OAK, and Pescarolo pulling the plug on LMP1 this year and Peugeot flicking the switch on last year), but you'd be foolish NOT to get optimistic.

Here's my idea of how this is all going to break down. Essentially LMP1 has been stripped bare of all of the teams that had been experiencing the headaches of trying to keep up with the rampant demands of maintaining a top-tier race team. Now we're left with only the automotive powerhouses like Audi and Toyota who are acquiring almost all of their revenue from selling massive numbers of their road cars to the public, and we're also left with the teams that only deal with motorsport itself but have a pocket nearly as deep (Strakka, Rebellion, and Muscle Milk come to mind). So that gives the series a bit of wiggle room - by changing the regs for 2014 to essentially give privateers the best possible chance to take the fight to the big teams, the ACO is now giving a big encouragement to smaller teams to get back into the fighting ring. They may not have as deep of pockets as Audi, Toyota, or Porsche, but if they make the leap into LMP1, you can guarantee they have a bit of a financial cushion. Lotus and Onroak are perfect examples. They are in the catbirds seat for making the transition from LMP2 to LMP1, and 2014 is the best year to do it. Everyone is on a more level playing field, and teams like Lotus and Onroak need to get their foot in the door before Audi and Toyota find other ways to weasel around the regs and establish their stranglehold once more. Plus there's the added benefit of Porsche unexpectedly entering the fray next year. So, for the 2014 WEC, we could reasonably expect...

2X Audi R18
2X Toyota TS030
2X Porsche P1
2X OAK
1X Strakka
2X Rebellion
2X Lotus
1X Perrinn

That's 14 cars already!

It's certainly time to get excited.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

Just like the DW was a stepping stone to P1? Because they've alreayd set a precedent, there is good reason to be really cynical about their "ambitions".

I will laugh if the G56 announcement turns out to be just modified SGT with KERS.

You laugh. I will laugh too. Because those cars would humble the delta. You crack on its effort but Nissan is still in lmp2. So how did that slow their ambitions? You really are being contradictory.