Acura/HPD's future plans

[seanyb505]

Everyone is spending money on a car they already have, which is a lot less money than a car they have to acquire.

It'd be nice if for some reason the HPD was raced, but for me it's sad to watch. I've kinda lost hope for HPDs after the last Highcroft P1 did so well at Sebring and was immediately shelved for various reasons in North America.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Everyone is spending money on a car they already have, which is a lot less money than a car they have to acquire.

Actually, it currently costs more to run the upgraded DPs for a season than the current P2 cars cost to acquire AND run. That's what got Mike Shank to jump ship early despite him being initially opposed to the series running the P2 cars at all.

It'd be nice if for some reason the HPD was raced, but for me it's sad to watch. I've kinda lost hope for HPDs after the last Highcroft P1 did so well at Sebring and was immediately shelved for various reasons in North America.

The ARX-02a was not shelved right after Sebring - it ran the full season. The reason it was shelved was because HPD pulled the funding before they even finished building the cars. The fact that it performed that well with no development budget speaks volumes for what Wirth can do. But for some reason they dropped the ball on this car.

[Deleted]

He wasn't talking about the ARX-02 but the amazing ARX-01e that showed up only at Sebring 2011 and beat everyone except the Oreca Peugeot. Afterwards Highcroft collapsed. That was the last truly great HPD

Alright yeah you've had some P2 champs since then with 03 and whatever, but that's freezed proam costcap racing for you, and the champ winning 03 LMP1 cars competed mostly against low and poor grids. Though they gave Rebellion nice fights.

[YorkshireLad]

I was told strakka spent a serious serious amount on the dome, thought they were developing it to run in P1-L?

[bentley speed 8]

They wanted to use it as a test mule to develop a new LMP1 car for 2017, but apparently they put that program on hold due to huge gap between privateers and factories.

[Deleted]

On hold = pretty much killed off

[Deleted]

Some really baffling comments
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12472...-participation

Not only the "-- I understand Riley is doing a brand new car" (umm no **** Sherlock) and some others, but also the apparent sudden praise towards the new spec regulations we haven't heard before. And thus the doom of their car and all...

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Some really baffling comments
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12472...-participation

Not only the "-- I understand Riley is doing a brand new car" (umm no **** Sherlock) and some others, but also the apparent sudden praise towards the new spec regulations we haven't heard before. And thus the doom of their car and all...

Those comments felt to me like they're trying to make a statement without making waves. With the behind-the-scenes anger over the rules(it has come to my attention that several teams have expressly rejected offers from Oreca to run their P2 chassis because of their influence on the rules) it's very difficult to say anything without throwing fuel onto the fire.

[Makaze]

Other than Europe,I bet there will be no Oreca P2 bought.

The 2017 P2 is just a disaster waiting to happen!!!

Are all the chassis going to be ready day one?

At the moment no.

[rich07]

What's stopping HPD running the car in one race or Roar before the 24 to show off any improvements-money aside?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Makaze

Other than Europe,I bet there will be no Oreca P2 bought.

There is still A possible sale in the works for an IMSA team. Don't expect to see it this year, though.

Are all the chassis going to be ready day one?

At the moment no.

Actually.... The chassis probably will be. Oreca and Ligier are likely going to just upgrade their existing cars, so only Riley and Dallara have to build a new design from the ground up. Both of those companies are capable of making it in time.

The engines? There's the real question. With all the outrage the final specs keep getting delayed which is only going to make it more difficult.

With the engine debacle WEC and ELMS will likely be relying VERY heavily on grandfathered machinery in 2017. IMSA has the benefit of it's own engine package to get around that.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Some really baffling comments
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12472...-participation

Very consistent with early statements from Eriksen as well....

"Unless we're allowed to use what we've already invested in, it means we have to go out and invest again, and in somebody else's technology. If you're asking American Honda to support it, they're going to ask how much it costs, about the value for the investment, and that's much harder to propose knowing we have our own chassis."

from nearly half a year ago http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/11912...et-to-conclude

Whatever.

[Makaze]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

There is still A possible sale in the works for an IMSA team. Don't expect to see it this year, though.



Actually.... The chassis probably will be. Oreca and Ligier are likely going to just upgrade their existing cars, so only Riley and Dallara have to build a new design from the ground up. Both of those companies are capable of making it in time.

The engines? There's the real question. With all the outrage the final specs keep getting delayed which is only going to make it more difficult.

With the engine debacle WEC and ELMS will likely be relying VERY heavily on grandfathered machinery in 2017. IMSA has the benefit of it's own engine package to get around that.

Ligier released their timetable for the 2017 P2 and it's just going to be ready for Daytona(most likely it's first test in Jan 2017) if nothing goes wrong(fail crash test or supplier problem)

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Actually.... The chassis probably will be. Oreca and Ligier are likely going to just upgrade their existing cars, so only Riley and Dallara have to build a new design from the ground up. Both of those companies are capable of making it in time.

Making it in time, sure. Making a GOOD car in time, that people will actually spend money on (knowing that everyone in the IMSA prototype division aside from Michael Shank is gonna be on the hook for seven figures BEFORE the cars ever actually race)? That's a totally different question, and one which I think will be answered with a whole lot of almost-identical Orecas and Ligiers and a bunch of the people who IMSA has been working with for a decade (or more) out of work.

The fact that Multimatic has its hands full with the Ford GT40 program (and they are trying to get help from anywhere they can get it in my neck of the woods right now) and the fact that Riley has IIRC not made a carbon-tubbed car since their Indycar tells me that they don't have a hope of having a competitive P2 car ready for their teams 13 months from now. Dallara might be able to do so, but they have a big hill to climb too because they don't have a prototype race car available right now. But of course, Oreca and Onroak don't, and that really is the point of the exercise I think. Oreca and Onroak knew they had an arms race brewing in the P2 class, and they got their friends at Le Mans to fix that, and IMSA went along with it, and while it may end up being a possible fix, I'm still of the opinion that it will turn into a complete fiasco, and after a year or two of the insanity IMSA will just kill the class and either make something of their own or just run GTE or some other GT car as the top of the series.

[chernaudi]

Only thing that Dallara has on their side is that they're not building LMP1 tubs for Audi anymore. YCom, who started building bodywork for Audi in 2011 or so, has built Audi's tubs since 2014. But even then, that's a double edged sword since they don't have very recent experience with building an LMP1 spec tub, which all LMP2 tubs have to pass LMP1 spec crash tests to be allowed to be homologated. Onroak and Oreca have that solved, since the JS P2 is based on a stillborn LMP1 car, and Oreca's car is just a budget, LMP2 spec version of the Rebellion R-One LMP1 car.

Dallara haven't built an LMP1 spec car (or any LMP1 car) since 2013 as result of Audi Sport switching to YCom for their tubs, and Multimatic are running the Ford GT program and Riley haven't built a full carbon tubbed car since 2000.

Granted, this is all down to what the market will bear, but the edge will always go to proven designs, especially in cost-capped classes.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by BrentJackson

I'm still of the opinion that it will turn into a complete fiasco, and after a year or two of the insanity IMSA will just kill the class and either make something of their own or just run GTE or some other GT car as the top of the series.

One can only hope, GTE as the top class would be great.

[chernaudi]

Only stake I can see in this for the future is if either HPD stay in IMSA as an engine supplier, or they do manage to get someone to buy up these cars for either LMP2 or LMP1. I can't really see either of the latter options happening, because the LMP2 will be obsolete by 2018, and the LMP1 version would be by 2019 at the latest. That, and the LMP1 version would need a hybrid if it goes beyond a HPD customer car program (ie, non-privateer) and even that might be dodge given what the ACO/FIA would think.

And as far as IMSA throwing away the prototype classes, it'd take a total meltdown of the prototype market in North America. And even then, it'd take a similar fallout on the ACO/FIA end, as prototype, much like GTLM running broadly to ACO tech specs, it lip service to IMSA's agreements with the ACO and FIA. I don't forsee a change happening where the GT classes would be the main classes in IMSA like it was in the 1970s.

[FormulaFox]

Sounds like someone may have contacted HPD about a NAEC program for their car, on the grounds that the car can show speed at the Roar. We shall see if this goes anywhere.

[Coach Ep]

It won't. Wanna bet?

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Makaze

Ligier released their timetable for the 2017 P2 and it's just going to be ready for Daytona(most likely it's first test in Jan 2017) if nothing goes wrong(fail crash test or supplier problem)

DPs for Daytona 17 for sure - Jan 17 first test is too late to be ready to race in Jan 17, only the grandfathered cars will be ready, the Acura could be one of them.

[chernaudi]

HPD might be grandfathered, but whether it sees a race track in anger is up to whoever might buy or rent them to race. That remains to be seen for now, and the Daytona test and the 24 itself aren't very far away now.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

HPD might be grandfathered, but whether it sees a race track in anger is up to whoever might buy or rent them to race. That remains to be seen for now, and the Daytona test and the 24 itself aren't very far away now.

The lack of 2017 cars available at the beginning of the 2017 IMSA season certainly presents a good opportunity for the Acura, otoh, it has been turned down completely by two teams already.

[Coach Ep]

You guys might wanna take this discussion to the USCC 2016-2017 thread.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

You guys might wanna take this discussion to the USCC 2016-2017 thread.

excellent idea, the discussion on class structure and whatnot has been moved to http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...40114&page=165

[chernaudi]

And with or without that stuff in the thread, as far as HPD in my opinion, their future in IMSA is as an engine supplier. IMSA rules still allow for stock block engines in Prototype; the Gibson/Zytek 4.2 LMP2 V8 is optional, but not required in IMSA.

Outside of that, they have a couple of cars built and race ready that no one's seeming really interested in buying for a full-season IMSA campaign, ACO rules will make their chassis obsolete in a couple of years (IMSA will apparently share chassis regs with the ACO), and they can only sell engines in IMSA, unless the ACO change their minds and allow a stock block option for their LMP2 class. Which that was rumored a while back, but nothing much has been said about that--or anything ACO LMP2 related--in quite a while.

I wouldn't say that no news is necessarily good news there, for HPD or anyone else involved, as what the ACO does will still have some impact on IMSA, and especially HPD's engine market.