My Tracks

[Tim Northcutt]

To mandretti39:


I didn't intend to offend...I do like the street circuit as noted in my previous post...

By the Way...do you know of any viable race promoters in that area???

New York City area????

Please e-mail me any info you might have on race presenters or promoters there, etc...

You can hook it to me via my listing on this forum through the members list....

Thanks!

[pirenzo]

only two posts since i was last here? You guys disappoint me

Tim, are you really serious about trying to get one of these events going, whatever it may be? Because if you are it would be really great so good luck to you.

[mandretti39]

Hey Tim, Gotta couple of things for ya. One, a possible race promoter, Mountain Creek, it's located about eight miles from East Rutherford. Here's the website: http://www.mountaincreek.nv.switchboard.com/

Also, you wanted a combined street/airport circuit, I've got one for ya, here it is:

[mandretti39]

Hey Tim, I tried to email you, but it says you don't want to receive emails through this board. Do you mind sending me a PM with it, so we can discuss this possible venture into creating a viable race track?

[Tim Northcutt]

I sent you a PM mandretti39...

look forward to hearing from you....and I'll have to change my personal settings, because I thought it WAS set up to receive e-mails...I've gotten them from other forum members....

Thanks for the heads-up on the promoter, too...

I apprecite it....

[crozier74]

Hey, mandretti 39, that new version using the airfield looks a lot better. On the old version I couldn't really see any passing places, and the track looked a bit angular and chicany. But with this new one you've created at least two good passing spots, and that second runway would make an excellent pit lane. Good work.

Here's my first ever edit, with just a few changes (namely changing the top-right runway section and removing two of the chicanes to improve passing), but I don't know if that area in the top-right is maybe too narrow. What do you think?

[mandretti39]

It's not bad. Maybe we could compromise and keep one of the chicanes, preferably the one on the back straight?

[Tim Northcutt]

Remember, to be an "FIA" or "ACO" approved track, an "unbroken" straight can't be longer than 1 km. or so....

Thus, if it is a 5,000 ft. runway at an airport, as an example, you'll have to put in some sort of element to break it up in some way...

In my layouts, I try to make them as "high-speed" as possible by puttin in a jog in the road from left-right, with some straing, then a jog back....kinda helps to get around an otherwise stupid rule...

[mandretti39]

I don't believe any of the straights on my track exceed 500 ft., take a look at the scale at the bottom left of the map. No need to break up the straights.

[the_royksopp]

P, you got it almost all right.

The track though, it is not one of your best. Will do an edit tomorrow.

[pirenzo]

Originally posted by the_royksopp
P, you got it almost all right.

The track though, it is not one of your best. Will do an edit tomorrow.

Well i like it

[crozier74]

OK, we'll compromise and keep one chicane, I prefer the first one as it looks a bit more flowing and doesn't spoil a passing spot as much as the other one.

As for the straights being over 1km, I've gotta say that is probably the most annoying and restricting rule the FIA have ever come up with regarding track design.

mandretti39, it's not 5000ft that's the limit though, Tim was just using that as an example. It's 1km/1093ft that's the limit, and I think two straights on the circuit break that length - the runway after the hairpin and the backstraight.

I've used another section of the runways to flaunt this rule, as it looks like that runway is definitely over 1km. Unfortunately the backstraight also looks like it's about 1.2km, so I've had to use an infield section. The pair of 45 lefts adds variety instead of just using 90's or another chicane. Unfortunately this layout seems like it's been articifially cut up and just doesn't look quite right. I much prefer my previous post, and if that rule weren't in place I'd definitely use it instead. Curse you, stupid FIA regs .

BTW, I envy you mandretti39, my last street track didn't get anywhere near the amount of responses that this one has . Also, can someone maybe use that scale to work out the lengths of the four (including this one) layouts that have been posted for this track so far, I think it's maybe getting a bit too long now.

My (reluctant) edit of the track in order to please the FIA .

[pmccormick]

MS Streets Trips says the circuit shown above is roughly 5.6 miles in length...

[pirenzo]

You know what the most dangerous thing in racing is these days?

A long straight into a tight hairpin or chicane. It causes dangerous bunching of the cars under braking. In essence, it's not the straight itself that is dangerous at all, it's what the corner at the other end is like. I personally think that at Monza for instance, a more open set of 3rd gear esses type thing would be better for safety and overtaking. Who really wants to risk their race for a silly pass into T1 there anyway. I think most of the passing i've seen in recent years has been at Della Roggia or Lesmo one anyway, which would break all the so called rules that a long straight with a hairpin at the end guarrentees passing. At Le Mans in the days of the full straight there, i'd imagine little passing happened at Mulsannes corner? It's just too tight, and the approch too fast. I'd imagine on the other had, that Indianapolis might be quite a good passing spot. I don't know, but i suspect it might be the case.

[Tim Northcutt]

To pmccormick:

Where can one access MS streets trips, and would I be able to apply it to my various airport circuits????

I'm not familiar with that at all...

Please advise...

Thanks!

[pmccormick]

MS Streets & Trips is just a Road Map program/software that you can buy at any Best Buy type store. It works like a lot of the web based programs like Mapquest, but has a lot more functionality. One of the tools is a Measuring Tool, which you use just like you would draw out your track over some of those airfield images, but it shows you the 'magnitude' of your line with respect to what you are drawing onto.

[crozier74]

Feel the tension, that 150th page is just a few posts away!

[pirenzo]

lol. That's gonna be quite an achievent. at 25 posts/page, 150 pages = 3750 posts. Not long ago we passed the 3000 post mark, so that's quite some progress.

[Tim Northcutt]

To Pirenzo:

I agree 110% with your assessment of the "dangerous" nature of Hairpins and chicanes....and I think the FIA guide -- as a reaction to what they felt was the "danger of the Mulsanne straight" (can't even come close to the "real name" the "french" name for it...was incredibly mis-guided...

[pirenzo]

yep. The chicanes on the Hunaudieres() are third gear though i think, so they're not too bad. Nither really is the chicane at Indy, just slow enough to allow overtaking, but they brake at less than 100m, so they can't be scrubbing off all that much speed (from 227 don't forget)

[crozier74]

Here’s my first blank canvas fantasy track. Sorry, but this is gonna be a long post ! But it has to be, because, like many of my tracks, a circuit diagram just doesn’t tell the whole story of the circuit, you need descriptions of the corners and where the elevation changes are and how the affect things to paint the full picture. If you get fed up reading then just skip to the bottom for the track map .

I’ve noticed that too many ovals’ road courses suffer from a lack of elevation change and are too twisty and not fun, ie. Indianapolis and Phoenix. It always looks like the circuit is an oval with a road course just thrown in for good measure, rather than a blending of the two. A possible exception to this is Motegi. As a result of this thinking I came up with the following circuit. As for the location, well the UK’s already got Rockingham, Germany the Lausitzring and the US has Indy and Daytona. So why not France? Besides, the names of the corners sound so much better in French. An area that has never had a major track, but with an international airport and just a 2h drive west of historic Le Mans?… Rennes.

Rennes
Grand Prix Circuit – 5.478 km
Infield Circuit – 3.864 km
Outfield Circuit – 3.626 km
Oval – 2.012 km
Anticlockwise

Le Lame de Couteau (Knifeblade) – A 135 degree left hander provides one of the best overtaking spots on the lap as you turn off the oval. This corner is swiftly followed by an uphill approach to a 55 degree left hander with a tight radius, meaning that the bend is slightly blind and can only be taken flat by a well set up car and brave driver, but if you get out of shape as the track crests on the exit you will likely be subject to an overtaking manoeuvre down the following straight.

Le Montagne Russe (Switchback) – Another good overtaking spot. A downhill approach leads into this long, very flowing, medium-speed bend. There is compression in the middle of the corner as it goes from downhill to uphill, creating all manner of handling characteristics !

L’Entortillement (Kink) – The uphill, beginning from halfway through Montagne Russe, gets steeper and steeper until it is similar to that of Radillion at Spa, leading into this fast and daunting corner that was inspired by and is very similar to it. It is steep uphill then flattens out on the exit, so the flat out turn in is blind, and also like Radillion there isn’t much run off on the outside at high speed!

Le Fond (Bottom) Another downhill approach flattens out before this 100 degree right hander. Another overtaking spot, but the last excellent one on the lap for a while. The track rises on the exit leading into le Sommet.

Le Sommet (Top) Almost immediately after le Fond, this bend rises uphill and would require and lift or blend of the throttle, making it a nice flowing bend.

Tournant Un (Turn 1) – A fast, flat out 75 degree left-hander brings you out onto the oval and immediately onto the halfway point of the Turn 1 banking. It would perhaps require you to go high on the banking on the exit to take the racing line and maximum speed, but some may opt to stay low on the exit and run side-by-side down the back-straight as the bend opens up into a sweep. A very technical corner.

Tournant Deux (Turn 2) – You run through the banking before it decreases on the exit as the bend tightens and leads you into the infield again. If the driver in front takes a high line on the banking on the entry, then overtaking by hanging low may be possible, but tricky.

L’Epingle (Hairpin) – A 170 degree constantly downhill hairpin. A possible overtaking opportunity, but a good exit is much more important, as it provides a chance to overtake into Virage Exterieur. This is the start of the final section of the lap which should see some brilliant tactical racing, particularly on the last lap. How to defend and when to overtake in these last six corners will be the main questions drivers are asking themselves during duels. Concentration in this last half of the lap must be at a peak.

Le Declivite (Dip)– A fantastic and daunting pair of bends, inspired by the bridge section at the Hawaii bonus track in the computer game F-1 World Grand Prix for the Nintendo 64. The track rises just after the bridge and goes into a hump back (not just a crest) before plummeting through the first left hander as the car goes light and twitchy at high speed, again with limited run off on the outside, before the track bottoms out through the right hand kink. "Threading the eye of the needle" is the best way to describe these bends!

Le Virage Exterier (Outer Bend) – A long straight into a hairpin left, this is one of the best overtaking opportunites on the lap.

Le Retour (Return) - After an uphill rise and plateau halfway down the previous straight, this 120 degree left-hander is the scene of do-or-die last lap manoeuvres, as you your rejoin onto a non-banked straight of the oval.

Tournant Trois (Turn 3) – Using the full corner, the high banking allows for several cars to run together as they launch out down the pit straight. The pit lane is on the left, and after my experiences on the IndyCar Series computer game, I have decided to move the end of the pit wall as far away from the corner as possible, to minimalise the risk of drivers crashing into it as they brake to enter the pits, and to allow that braking to take place after they have fully exited the bend.

And finally, the track map:

[Chaynes321]

HI GUYS WOW ... UMM I'VE MISSED ABOUT 10 PAGES ... I THINK?!!

Neways nice post crozier74 ... will do an edit soon ...

[pirenzo]

um, yeah, 'bout that!

[pirenzo]

Nice track Crozier, i haven't managed to read that whole post, but since you have all that you might consider tarting the image up a bit (bigger, more detail etc) and then sending it to www.etracksonline.co.uk for their fantasy track gellery. You need a fairly long winded explaination of your track for that....

[pirenzo]

this is the link to the track that the regular contributors of this thread put together a month or so ago

http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/Desig...ksraceway.html