GTE Speculation

[Speed-King]

On other hand, there isn't BoP on GTE, it could be a good thing to McLaren.

Did you just step out of a time machine from four years ago?

[alexkiller8]

in my opinion GTE regulamentation should change to let more manufacter get inside! give a more free regulations on engines so manufacters may use race engines swapped from other cars produced by the same manufacter and then remove the 5.5L limit.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Did you just step out of a time machine from four years ago?

There's only a farce rulset now in GTE, I'm sure both McLaren and BMW will be allowed to build anything they want..

[arakis]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

in my opinion GTE regulamentation should change to let more manufacter get inside! give a more free regulations on engines so manufacters may use race engines swapped from other cars produced by the same manufacter and then remove the 5.5L limit.

It's called friking GT3

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by arakis

It's called friking GT3

are you sure of this? i've written that thinking about old GT1 cars...

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

are you sure of this? i've written that thinking about old GT1 cars...

The Z4 GT3 is the only GT3 car now that has an engine that is NOT available for the Z4 road car, but it won't be the last, I'm pretty sure of that.

[alexkiller8]

repeat, i've written the post remembering that in gt1 regulamentation (i mean the real gt1 cars not the actual gt3 ones) was possible to swap the engine. Nissan GT-R used the V8 56VK (units that powers the infiniti SUV) and matech ford GT used the roush 5.3 V8 that has a different structure than the one used in the road car. Because of this i think that the rules need to be changed, also because if manufacters want they can obtain a waiver to use the engine they wish.

[Victor_RO]

GT3 is as free as it gets in many aspects, the only major regulation is BoP.

[pedrocor]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

repeat, i've written the post remembering that in gt1 regulamentation (i mean the real gt1 cars not the actual gt3 ones) was possible to swap the engine. Nissan GT-R used the V8 56VK (units that powers the infiniti SUV) and matech ford GT used the roush 5.3 V8 that has a different structure than the one used in the road car. Because of this i think that the rules need to be changed, also because if manufacters want they can obtain a waiver to use the engine they wish.

If the engine isn't the same of the road car, It shouldn't be called GT car.

A GT class should have a correlation tho whole road car, not only a part of the car.

If it makes so much sense to put a V8 under the hood of the Z4, why doesn't BMW (who builds 1.5 million cars year) just build a limited edition 100 units Z4M V8?

[alexkiller8]

"If the engine isn't the same of the road car, It shouldn't be called GT car"

the yours is just semantics... trust the engines used in 458 GT and in the c6r share only the original structure but are completely different engines from the road counterparts. Repeat, i think that is absurd to limit in this way manufacters that want to enter in the competition! ACO should say thanks to bmw for their z4 GTE project and promote this decision allowing them to use the m3 engine, not give them struggles with regulamentation...
afterall the power has been always kept under control using restrictors: do you want to use a larger displaced engine? well you have the same power ot other cars, but more torque and (in theory) less fuel efficency, but if you are good to develope engines you can go beyond this like ferrari with his 4.5 that has the best fuel efficency.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

"If the engine isn't the same of the road car, It shouldn't be called GT car"

the yours is just semantics... trust the engines used in 458 GT and in the c6r share only the original structure but are completely different engines from the road counterparts. Repeat, i think that is absurd to limit in this way manufacters that want to enter in the competition! ACO should say thanks to bmw for their z4 GTE project and promote this decision allowing them to use the m3 engine, not give them struggles with regulamentation...
afterall the power has been always kept under control using restrictors: do you want to use a larger displaced engine? well you have the same power ot other cars, but more torque and (in theory) less fuel efficency, but if you are good to develope engines you can go beyond this like ferrari with his 4.5 that has the best fuel efficency.

So your basic concept is trow the rulebook out the window, where is the sence in that? do you feel the same about LMP1, I'm sure Ferrari would enter it if they told them, hey you don't have to follow any rules, just come, pretty plz... While we are on the subject, why wouldn't Porsche of Ferrari just bolt on turbo chargers etc..etc...or the Ferrari ruining with the 6L DFI v12..from the f12

What's the point of a crap car like the Z4 getting advertizing points, of how it's faster then a 458, 991, or a corvette, when in fact it;s a 6cyl piece og garbage...

GT3/NGT=>GT2=>GTE class was always conceived as a platform on which to race real road cars, with race modifications, but keeping the major components mostly identical to road cars...

[alexkiller8]

is clear that we have different point of view, what i think is that in a season where less than 10 cars joint the gt-pro class at le mans, ACO should change some rule to let manufacters like bmw and mclaren to develope their GTE cars starting from a GT3 base without regulamentation struggle that make them run away from the GTE class. Starting from the point that next year there will be already a car that break the rules about engines, why give so struggles to bmw to don't use their m3 engine?
A solution that everybody should agree is to ask to the other manufacters involved (ferrari, chevrolet, porsche and AMR) if they agree to allow z4 to run with m3 engine. If they agree, ACO should simply allow the car to run as they did with viper an STFU.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

is clear that we have different point of view, what i think is that in a season where less than 10 cars joint the gt-pro class at le mans, ACO should change some rule to let manufacters like bmw and mclaren to develope their GTE cars starting from a GT3 base without regulamentation struggle that make them run away from the GTE class. Starting from the point that next year there will be already a car that break the rules about engines, why give so struggles to bmw to don't use their m3 engine?
A solution that everybody should agree is to ask to the other manufacters involved (ferrari, chevrolet, porsche and AMR) if they agree to allow z4 to run with m3 engine. If they agree, ACO should simply allow the car to run as they did with viper an STFU.

They already said no to GT3 cars entering GTE, I mean think of it from their perspective, they built the class and brought the attention of the public, and they had to folow rules, why should up-starts be alowed in with out them...

The whole argument is pointless, since the ACO/FIA have already thrown the book out the window, and I am 100% sure that BMW, McLaren and the NASA's Space Shuttle will be allowed to enter if they wanted.

I'm aftaid that we will likely lose Ferrari and porsche high level involvement, as in the teams will most likely switch to non works crews etc..

[alexkiller8]

infact i said GTE cars built from a GT3 base! is not a GT3 car entered in GTE class as was the lp560-4 of last year in ALMS.
Sincerly i don't agree a thing with ACO managment of GTE regulamentation! let's speak clear, the GTE class actually is the most important GT class in motorsport after the death of GT1 class. So what i ask my self is:
1) if in 2009 the GT2 class, fairly, had a poweroutput of around 500hp because they had to be less performant than the 600 and more hp GT1 cars, why now the GTE cars are not allowed to run with at least 550hp? to achieve this, there is no need to make some expensive development but just use fu*ki* larger restrictors!

2) if in 2010 the GT2 cars that started to use the currently GTE spec had to have a min. weight of 1245kg because there were GT1 cars in LM grid, well, why now ACO doesn't use a lower min. weight as standard, something like 1150kg? also thsi improvement will require 0 development costs.

3) why the GTE cars, that, repeat, are the currently most important GT class, still are forced to use primitve ductless diffuser that force the car to have a higher rideheight? manufacters will spend much less money in R&D to improve the cars if they will be able to focus on a competitive diffuser that spend money to optimize other parameters like now they are forced to do!

currently GTE car best lap at le mans= 3.55.0

currently GTE car + restrictors size increase (550hp) + weight reduction (1150kg)= surely around 3.50 with 0€/$ spent in R&D

currently GTE car + restrictors size increase (550hp) + weight reduction (1150kg) + GT1 style diffuser = a possible 3.45

[pedrocor]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

"If the engine isn't the same of the road car, It shouldn't be called GT car"

the yours is just semantics... trust the engines used in 458 GT and in the c6r share only the original structure but are completely different engines from the road counterparts. Repeat, i think that is absurd to limit in this way manufacters that want to enter in the competition! ACO should say thanks to bmw for their z4 GTE project and promote this decision allowing them to use the m3 engine, not give them struggles with regulamentation...
afterall the power has been always kept under control using restrictors: do you want to use a larger displaced engine? well you have the same power ot other cars, but more torque and (in theory) less fuel efficency, but if you are good to develope engines you can go beyond this like ferrari with his 4.5 that has the best fuel efficency.

Well, it isn't just semantics... GTE engines must retains things like block, cylinder heads, number e location of camshafts...
There are also strong limitations on modifications to engine placement that may require "waivers"
Another point is Variable Timing Valves is forbidden unless used in road going engine, which is not the case in Z4, although the 4.4l V8 used in GT3 version has it.

[rich07]

Picked this up from DSC when they asked Richard Dean from United Autosports why their McLarens wouldnt be at the Spa 24hrs.

"We have had some pretty unrepresentative results so far this year and with some exciting plans already coming together for 2013 with McLaren we believe the better and more constructive option right now with our available resource is to put together and undertake a programme to help develop the cars rather than running them in a 24 hour race."

Now these exciting plans with McLaren must be in GT-E/GT-Am next year, I cant see them pulling out of Spa if they were only running GT3 spec cars next year, if anything Spa would be a good test session for their current cars if the plan was to stay in GT3 next year.

[Articus]

It has to be GTE...Honeslty if GT3 cars are the only thing Mclaren can produce with the MP2-12c then that is embarrasing. They need to take on the Ferrari 458 in GTE and as its simple as that! The 458 is the car that everyone compares(and says is better) the Mclaren to.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Articus

It has to be GTE...Honeslty if GT3 cars are the only thing Mclaren can produce with the MP2-12c then that is embarrasing. They need to take on the Ferrari 458 in GTE and as its simple as that! The 458 is the car that everyone compares(and says is better) the Mclaren to.

There is a 458 GT3 btw. And it seems the Ferrari is leaps and bounds ahead on the scoreboard there..

It has to be GT-E that UA are referring to. It cant be anything else. It'd be fantastic to see McLaren back at Le Mans. Lets enter one car late, paint it black/grey, bust JJ out of the hotel with the steel curtains and go for the outright win again!

[MitchZ06]

2013 was always the year McLaren would come back after debuting the 12C GT3. Let's not forget that the 12C GT3 was designed as a GTE car (strange coincidence the 12C GT3 showed up and the ACO allowed in carbon tubbed cars to GTE) and that the intention was to sell the 12C as a customer GTE car.

[MagVanisher]

What about the Nissan GT-R, will it make its debut at Le Mans in the future should they decided to field GT cars instead of fielding LMPs?

[Articus]

I'm concerned that Nissan is too preoccupied with the unofficial DTM program, P2 engine supply, and all its quirky crappy road cars except for the GTR and the Z's( I like the older Z's much better. Those are classics) to give a hoot about a GTE.

[Simmi]

It does seem that UA have been destined for Le Mans for the last couple of years and this seems a good way for them to get back. I only hope that they don't get more 'unrepresentative results' with the new chassis in GTE form.

I actually feared that the GTE programme would be canned due to the poor results of the GT3. But would LOVE to see them back at LM. The potential of them, plus a sniff of the Dodge in 2013 would really give the GT class a shot in the arm.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Articus

I'm concerned that Nissan is too preoccupied with the unofficial DTM program, P2 engine supply, and all its quirky crappy road cars except for the GTR and the Z's( I like the older Z's much better. Those are classics) to give a hoot about a GTE.

Don't forget V8SC!

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

What about the Nissan GT-R, will it make its debut at Le Mans in the future should they decided to field GT cars instead of fielding LMPs?

Seeing Godzilla return to Le Mans would be great. Like Toyota I know there's unfinished business there.

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by Simmi

a sniff of the Dodge in 2013 would really give the GT class a shot in the arm.

Maybe more of a shot in the foot when the regulations clearly state the maximum displacement allowed is 5500cc. I fear a waiver allowing 2500cc extra might just be enough for the other manufacturers to withdraw their support of the series.