Formula ford 2013.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Having one series, where all prospective young F1 drivers had to complete, could change that because then the public might (with the right promotion), become connected.

If there was one series then all the seats in it would be taken up by the drivers with the most money.

And then someone would start another series, which tried to be a cheaper.

And we're back where we are now.

[BtccLee]

http://m.autoblog.com/2013/08/31/fia-launches-formula-4

But is this what will save Formula Ford, by effectively killing it...

Also and forgive my ignorance but how many components from the current cars could be used after switching to a carbon chassis? Could the current Mygales be used and converted into the FIA F4 spec demonstrated?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

The current FF cars are spaceframe chassis, which means that they'll have to build totally new ones. Mygale are up to it, but Sinter are pÃ*ssed off with this...

[BtccLee]

Will Sinter be able to block a move to FIA F4?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Maybe, but they certainly want to run their Spaceframe car for at least another season.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Maybe, but they certainly want to run their Spaceframe car for at least another season.

Well Ford are pausing for a Class B and don't really want to have to start the FIA series until 2015 ... If they could sell the cars they have built maybe then they would be ok? Or could Ford buy them out of the series, in effect?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

The last Brit FF champ to become an F1 driver was I believe Jenson Button, who won in 1998.

Nicholas Kiesa (1999 champion) also reached F1 - briefly - with Minardi.

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Will Sinter be able to block a move to FIA F4?

I'd assume not as ultimately it is the championship organisers, with the agreement of the MSA, that decides championship regulations.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Well Ford are pausing for a Class B and don't really want to have to start the FIA series until 2015 ... If they could sell the cars they have built maybe then they would be ok? Or could Ford buy them out of the series, in effect?

That is the big problem. It seems that nobody really wants to buy them. Ford could buy them out of the series, but when most of the grid drive Mygale cars, do they just follow the majority and let Sinter suffer? It could, after all, save their series.

And, after the horrible pile-up at Spa last year, multi-class racing came under attack, but I think Ford said that it was fine, so Class B doesn't sound too bad. The only thing is, with the FIA F4 regs being as they are right now, is there anything useful that can be below that?

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

That is the big problem. It seems that nobody really wants to buy them. Ford could buy them out of the series, but when most of the grid drive Mygale cars, do they just follow the majority and let Sinter suffer? It could, after all, save their series.

And, after the horrible pile-up at Spa last year, multi-class racing came under attack, but I think Ford said that it was fine, so Class B doesn't sound too bad. The only thing is, with the FIA F4 regs being as they are right now, is there anything useful that can be below that?

The fact is for Sinter, they weren't going to have a series to race in next year if FIA F4 couldn't happen with Ford.


Also I feel with the number of high profile chassis builders getting involved we may see more variety added to the grid. No disrespect to Sinter but Mygale had a years experience over them so very few would buy an unproved package. With FIA F4 everyone starts from scratch...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

The fact is for Sinter, they weren't going to have a series to race in next year if FIA F4 couldn't happen with Ford.


Also I feel with the number of high profile chassis builders getting involved we may see more variety added to the grid. No disrespect to Sinter but Mygale had a years experience over them so very few would buy an unproved package. With FIA F4 everyone starts from scratch...

Ray were interested, and so was another constructor, but I can't remember who that was

[brakedisc]

F4 is another rubbish idea from those in charge. The main problem is that the FIA and the MSA have no idea as to what people can afford. For too long they have been out of touch with reality. The teams and the drivers all say they want power with wings safely ( of course they do ) but the reality is that most of them cannot afford these things. FF is on its last legs because the people in charge have listened to the hype from the teams, drivers and families of those who aspire to greater things. The FIA have fallen into the same trap with F4 and instead of finding out what people can afford they have gone with what people dream about.

At Knockhill the MSA Formula Ford championship attracted 9 competitors only 4 of which were British while the local Mini Cooper Cup managed to get 32 entries. Some of the Mini drivers are FF1600 drivers with a great pedigree who are stuck because of the cost of moving forward.

Meanwhile the FIA are marketing F4 as

"the first step on the ladder from karting to Formula 1"

I think someone needs to have a word in the ear of both the FIA and the MSA as to where they have got it wrong.

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

F4 is another rubbish idea from those in charge. The main problem is that the FIA and the MSA have no idea as to what people can afford. For too long they have been out of touch with reality. The teams and the drivers all say they want power with wings safely ( of course they do ) but the reality is that most of them cannot afford these things. FF is on its last legs because the people in charge have listened to the hype from the teams, drivers and families of those who aspire to greater things. The FIA have fallen into the same trap with F4 and instead of finding out what people can afford they have gone with what people dream about.

At Knockhill the MSA Formula Ford championship attracted 9 competitors only 4 of which were British while the local Mini Cooper Cup managed to get 32 entries. Some of the Mini drivers are FF1600 drivers with a great pedigree who are stuck because of the cost of moving forward.

Meanwhile the FIA are marketing F4 as

"the first step on the ladder from karting to Formula 1"

I think someone needs to have a word in the ear of both the FIA and the MSA as to where they have got it wrong.

Well said Brakedisk. Ford have taken a championship that enjoyed very healthy grids 2006-2011 (the Duratec era) and destroyed it. Even if they do get the nod from the FIA and morph into F4 it will no longer be FF & where are all these drivers with budgets of £150k plus going to come from? The reason FR BARC enjoyed a boom year in 2012 was that they had the right product for the economic climate. Ironically I think FR BARC has been more affected by the intoduction of BRDC/MSV F4 than British Formula Ford has but has still has enjoyed grid sizes that on average are double what British FF has been this year. Everyone was sold the dream of being with TOCA as a panacea? Why?? It didn't save Formula Renault UK which like ECOboost FF was just too expensive in the current market!

Lack of organisational skills of drinking parties in brewery's spring to mind! RIP British Formula Ford. But long live Classic Formula Ford 1600 (Kent) which will continue to thrive as a grass roots race category.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

FF racing for older cars will be a great place to start out, actually, but won't get many sponsors noticing you!

BRDC F4 works, BARC FR works slightly better, but isn't well promoted in comparison, despite F4 not being on a package with any more pedigree. Brit FF, however, is a HUGE flop. The Ecoboost car killed what was a brilliant series.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

FF racing for older cars will be a great place to start out, actually, but won't get many sponsors noticing you!

BRDC F4 works, BARC FR works slightly better, but isn't well promoted in comparison, despite F4 not being on a package with any more pedigree. Brit FF, however, is a HUGE flop. The Ecoboost car killed what was a brilliant series.

Will potential sponsors notice any FF series? As Scot Malvern and many before him have shown sadly picking up sponsors at this level is about more than winning races....

Just as Formula Junior had a shelf life maybe FF have had theirs and it is now time to move on? I do feel sorry for anyone who has funded a driver in FF this year as they must feel they have had little bang for their buck

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I do feel sorry for anyone who has funded a driver in FF this year

Such as... ?

[simon drabble]

it was a more general comment rather than a specific one. This is not a cheap sport and if you are funding a driver you try and do what is ultimately going to get the best exposure for them and as backer best chance of one day being repaid!!
I would say this year has not done that.....

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

it was a more general comment rather than a specific one. This is not a cheap sport and if you are funding a driver you try and do what is ultimately going to get the best exposure for them and as backer best chance of one day being repaid!!
I would say this year has not done that.....

There are very few, if any at all, genuine sponsorship deals in British entry level racing. Almost all 'deals' can be traced back to family or associated businesses.

I would also question whether 'exposure' has ever got a driver anywhere, at least in recent years. Much more to do with even more family money paying for an agent to tout your protege around.

[EastonNeston]

A massive 12 cars in testing today, SWB have returned, with Jack Dex, and falcon are back to 3 cars, however Jamun have lost on of their drivers.
So the series still has about half the number of cars found in F Renault or FFord.

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

A massive 12 cars in testing today, SWB have returned, with Jack Dex, and falcon are back to 3 cars, however Jamun have lost on of their drivers.
So the series still has about half the number of cars found in F Renault or FFord.

Stop posting as your anti formula ford attacks are boring me now

[EastonNeston]

HAHA, so sorry you find factual information boring.

[BtccLee]

We will know at the end of this month if Formula Ford is to become FIA F4. Sinter aren't happy and neither are Ray who have apparently spent £70000 on a chassis. Series will use Mygales with EcoBoost engine whilst also running a Class B in 2015 if Ford get there wish. Frankly I can't see Ford have another option but how do they appease the unhappy parties which are actually a minor ( in terms of size) part of the grid...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Meanwhile, the Kent cars will headline the FF Festival this year...

...nostalgia eh?!

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Meanwhile, the Kent cars will headline the FF Festival this year...

...nostalgia eh?!

Yes and the biggest FF event of the year is for Kent Cars as well; The Walter Hayes Trophy.

And on the subject of Walter Hayes, the great man must be spinning in his

grave at the state contemporary of FF. Stuart Turner ditto. Ford's motorsports heritage has been criminally squandered!

[Alfaholic]

Yet another win for Cammish today. Some good midfield racing for a couple of laps, but mostly he same old follow my leader.

[Peat]

I was a bit bemused by the Cammish 'double fist pump' celebration when he crossed the line.

Dominating a championship is good, sure. But winning 23 for 23 has to raise serious questions over the competition level of the championship. Good luck flogging that to a potential sponsor, Dan!