Brabham BT36

[allenbrown]

Anyone have contact details for Harps? I need to ask him about a Chevron B24 he once owned and the phone number I have for him is out of date.

Please email me at allen@oldracingcars.com if you can point me in the right direction. I can ask him about BT36-1 at the same time.

[phdm]

Originally Posted by pantah

If it is of interest to anyone (probably not..) BT 36-3 currently has frame AM71-49. Considering the accidednt damage it sustained in the Bob Hawthorn accident, in which it was involved, would this have been the original frame, or a replacement?

Pantah,
Are you talking of BT36-3 that is in Germany ?
Have you got any pictures of the car / chassis ?
phdm

[Ted Walker]

Andrew. All I can say about 36-1 is when it was dragged out of storage and photographed in detail by myself, prior to myself buying it from Antony Mayman(who only bought it because it was an exHill car) apart from having some strange french side pontoons fitted on with jubilee clips it was totally un-molested .It still had its rondel nose over-painted with Maroon for Tate of Leeds. The chassis required very little repair work. It was NEVER re chassied by Retro for John Harper (who now lives in France).

[Andrew Fellowes]

Ted do you have any other photos than the one Allen posted? In particular the section front of the dash board and also the rear of the chassis?

Neither the front of the car or the rear is original. Cant speak for the middle!
Peter Watts was going to look through his note book to see what they did, so far I haven't heard any more.

Allen I hope you can find Harps, I am looking for Fredy Kumschick, can anyone help? !!

Andrew
p.s. what makes the pontoons French?

[Andrew Fellowes]

p.p.s. The photo I have of Tate of Leeds nose colours were grey outside sides, bright red 'wings' and the bulk of it bright blue.
?

I also have photos of it some 2 years later when it was a different colour scheme again,
I will get the sand paper out tomorrow!

Andrew

[Ted Walker]

Because it had come back from France and were covered in french sponsors !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What photos did Allen post ??? Cant find them . I talk with Harper a couple of times a week . I can ask him if you like.

[driftwood]

google freddy k racing switzerland u wil lget a link if that fails i can ask a swissy i know for his number

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

What photos did Allen post ???

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Where and when?


(click for a larger image)

It was taken by Ted and there is some relevance to it being posted on this thread but you get no more clues than that.

Allen

This one Ted.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Because it had come back from France and were covered in french sponsors !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What photos did Allen post ??? Cant find them . I talk with Harper a couple of times a week . I can ask him if you like.

Yes please Ted 'cause I dont understand, who had it in France?

1976-8 John Tait
1978-9 Bill Ness sold to;
1979-86 Anthony Mayman
1986-9 bought by John Harper (via Ted Walker)

Thanks Andrew
-that spare nose looks more like Arthur Moore's colour scheme but would it really have survived through that many owners?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by driftwood

google freddy k racing switzerland u wil lget a link if that fails i can ask a swissy i know for his number

Fredy has replied to me that BT36-3 does indeed have an AM number, I will try and find out what it is,

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

Well I got the sandpaper out,

This is a 3 piece nose, the centre section is a standard BT36 nose in Rondel blue gel coat to which has been riveted the two side pods but both are in a gel coat of the same colour as in the photo.
I cant see any Tate of Leeds blue, red or grey but if it was a thin paint job that may be no surprise. There are no '72 Hill colours either.

I deduce the centre section could be Rondel provenance, the two side pods are most likely a later addition.

BT36-2 was sold with standard nose and wide nose (well it turned up with Eddie Marcello like that), I assume BT36-1 could have been as well.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Checking the photo of Arthur Moore (I dont have permission to post) the nose side pods appear to be exactly the same. The gel coat colour also matches the colour in the photo, its a strong red, my guess is that the reproduction of Ted's photo is not true to colour. It also has the two metal flaps.

The side pods now have a flat metal sheet riveted to the underneath thus destroying the very reason why these noses worked, they were concave.

Andrew

[Ted Walker]

Spoke with JH last night.THE CAR WAS NOT RE-CHASSIED IN HIS OWNERSHIP.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Spoke with JH last night.THE CAR WAS NOT RE-CHASSIED IN HIS OWNERSHIP.

Thank you Ted, So Mayman bought BT36-1 from Bill Ness, so when was it in France?

Andrew

[Ted Walker]

Mayman bought his BT7 from Bill Ness.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

Well you learn something every day,
A/S Nov29 p. 57

What was BT36-1 doing in Cheshire, November 1979, that was the year Anthony Mayman bought it from Bill Ness, or did he? or is the photo a case of artistic licence & they really were selling a BT30?

Andrew

If this advert is correct, then BT36-1 was in Cheshire in 1979, I can't find the ref for Bill Ness so I assume for the moment that is an error.
So the next question is where did Mayman get it from, Cheshire? the evidence so far that it was in France is circumstantial only.

I also have Harper's FIA form and according to that it was in France from 1974, there is no mention of Anthony Mayman at all.

Andrew

[Ted Walker]

This is starting to get a bit tedious.Some people own all sorts of racing cars and dont want it made public knowledge for various reasons.Take it from me Antony Mayman owned that car.Perhaps all the dash labels and other advertising in FRENCH might be a clue ??????????

[allenbrown]

Mayman's money, Harps' shed?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

....Perhaps all the dash labels and other advertising in FRENCH might be a clue ??????????

For sure, but its just that, a clue, no more than that, it could easily be English owned, campaigned in France for 2 or 3 meetings and then returned to England. If I were to wear a Fez it doesn't make me Turkish.
Saying it was in France on the FIA form from 1974 is an easy (if rather pointless) way of saying either we dont know, or we dont want you to know. It is perhaps possible to blame this on the pressure of the FIA form which demands continuous history and then there is immediate pressure to invent.

Yes Ted, it is tedious trying to establish evidence particularly when the physical evidence (the chassis BT36-1) is clearly not what it is claimed to be either through repairs, replacement or deceit. Its not unlike the chassis AM71-49, it should be from BT36-3 but it could be several things.
Mayman's money, Harp's shed?

I now have my camera with me so here a couple of shots to illustrate what I was talking about earlier. The centre section has now been restored as an original style nose, the pods I keep for posterity.




Andrew

What French dash panel labels? do you have any more photos?

[allenbrown]

Hey Ted, do you ever pick up your phone?

[Andrew Fellowes]

I also have this from Ian, it would seem that the late John Tait never changed BT36-1 from the colour scheme that Arthur Moore had.

I met John on several occasions in 1977 to look over his BT36-#1, as a ref for putting my car back together. BT36-#1 bodywork color was a shade of red, as I remember and had a Rondel nose cone.
I was at the Thruxton G8 event in 1977 where John Taite entered BT36#1 and finished way down in the placings.

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

Amco Racing's last advert for what appears to be BT36-1 was at the start of June 1980.

Andrew

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

I also have this from Ian, it would seem that the late John Tait never changed BT36-1 from the colour scheme that Arthur Moore had.



Andrew

I would second that: I was at a Thruxton Shellsport race where Tait appeared [probably the same one] and from memory it was a very tired orange/red with Rondel nose. [I still vividly remember some of the back markers from those races largely because they were "unusual" in some respect, i.e I couldn't believe they'd passed scrutineering...]

Somewhere I have a photo of that car in the Thruxton paddock.

Chris

[Andrew Fellowes]

That's certainly what the gel coat looks like, red with a touch of orange. The second nose, lurking in background of that photo must originate from somewhere else, it is neither Rondel blue nor Arthur Moore red.

I did ask Tim Schenken about John Tait as he did know him, he couldn't add anything other than I think he said it was a heart attack.

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

Copyright & posted with the permission of Stuart Dent

Andrew