BTCC 2019 season discussion, News and Rumours! - Page 152

redshoes · 15 Feb 2019, 09:43 (Ref:3884347)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

A few articles mentioned that they were not using the B48 engine, but I don't recall the team specifically mentioning it (or using it as any form of excuse for results). They did say that they were down on straight line speed compared to other cars, but just seemed to quietly get on with their business.

It wasn't specifically mentioned in their press release when the unveiled the car but some of the media picked up on it. Don't recall any mention of it during the year.

It was treated as a different engine/chassis combination to the WSR cars so got a separate BOP, which would have negated some of the apparent disadvantage.

btccbloke · 15 Feb 2019, 10:22 (Ref:3884353)

Do we have any whispers or "in the know's" about the BTC announcement on Monday yet?

**bella** · 15 Feb 2019, 11:14 (Ref:3884362)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

It was treated as a different engine/chassis combination to the WSR cars so got a separate BOP, which would have negated some of the apparent disadvantage.

for people (ok, me) not familiar with the btcc bop process, is it ballast or air intake limits or...?

Sodemo · 15 Feb 2019, 11:19 (Ref:3884366)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

for people (ok, me) not familiar with the btcc bop process, is it ballast or air intake limits or...?

No one really knows any more as there is zero transparency, we are just told “it’s balanced”, and have to move on.

RS67 · 15 Feb 2019, 11:42 (Ref:3884367)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

No one really knows any more as there is zero transparency, we are just told “it’s balanced”, and have to move on.

RWD cars have a minimum weight limit as do FWD cars. The Subarus were I believe given the choice of additional weight to be carried on the bulk head to negate their CoG advantage or run lower boost.
All engines are tested for cylinder head airflow capacity and boost limit is set accordingly to balance them out. There are no hidden secrets.

crmalcolm · 15 Feb 2019, 11:46 (Ref:3884369)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS67

The Subarus were I believe given the choice of additional weight to be carried on the bulk head to negate their CoG advantage or run lower boost.

All RWD cars are subject to a C of G equalisation procedure, it's not just a Subaru-specific regulation. (Regulation 5.2.18)

touring fan01 · 15 Feb 2019, 13:40 (Ref:3884392)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS67

RWD cars have a minimum weight limit as do FWD cars. The Subarus were I believe given the choice of additional weight to be carried on the bulk head to negate their CoG advantage or run lower boost.
All engines are tested for cylinder head airflow capacity and boost limit is set accordingly to balance them out. There are no hidden secrets.

the subaru can run with weight on the bulkhead or a higher floor height (not lower boost)

also all teams receive a chart with all the boost limits for each engine. like you say there are not secrets within the teams

porsche962fan · 15 Feb 2019, 13:53 (Ref:3884394)

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

I hope so too, he is a genuinely nice guy. My understanding is that this season he has almost equal equipment to the other BMWs, in terms of the engine at least.
I dont think it was too well publicised that he was running an older, less developed engine compared to the WSR guys towards the front which unfortunately made his performances (Knockhill aside) look really poor in comparison.

the issue is WSR themselves had straight line issues

so if they do poor Jelly was probably the slowest car in straightline speed

Sodemo · 15 Feb 2019, 14:09 (Ref:3884395)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

the issue is WSR themselves had straight line issues

so if they do poor Jelly was probably the slowest car in straightline speed

The BMW had several increasingly punitive boost restrictions put in place. First there was a boost cut for 1st gear, then I *believe* there was a separate boost restriction below 120kph. Then that was reduced to 100kph and now I think its 80kph. Again I don’t know for sure, because this stuff isn’t written anywhere in the regs or on the BTCC official pages. I assume this applies to Subaru as well, but again, no official documentation published so, who knows...?

touring fan01 · 15 Feb 2019, 14:24 (Ref:3884396)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The BMW had several increasingly punitive boost restrictions put in place. First there was a boost cut for 1st gear, then I *believe* there was a separate boost restriction below 120kph. Then that was reduced to 100kph and now I think its 80kph. Again I don’t know for sure, because this stuff isn’t written anywhere in the regs or on the BTCC official pages. I assume this applies to Subaru as well, but again, no official documentation published so, who knows...?

not just bmw.
every rwd car (bmw and subaru) has exactly the same standing-start boost reduction up to the same speed to equalise their starts

and it cant possibly be too "punitive" as rwd cars have won the last two championships and its a rwd car that has won the most races in each of the last two years!

sceptic · 15 Feb 2019, 14:52 (Ref:3884399)

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Do we have any whispers or "in the know's" about the BTC announcement on Monday yet?

Yes, it's announcing their second driver.

btccbloke · 15 Feb 2019, 15:02 (Ref:3884402)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sceptic

Yes, it's announcing their second driver.

well yeah i got that much from their announcement about the announcement

I just havent really seen any whispers about who it might be, we knew it would be Smiley, we know its not JP, im still saying James Cole but its all a bit quiet so this could be a bit of a surprise one, (although by now someone has come on here knowing who it is)

billy bleach · 15 Feb 2019, 15:06 (Ref:3884403)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The BMW had several increasingly punitive boost restrictions put in place. First there was a boost cut for 1st gear, then I *believe* there was a separate boost restriction below 120kph. Then that was reduced to 100kph and now I think its 80kph. Again I don’t know for sure, because this stuff isn’t written anywhere in the regs or on the BTCC official pages. I assume this applies to Subaru as well, but again, no official documentation published so, who knows...?

I guess the teams and engine builders do...

Sodemo · 15 Feb 2019, 15:30 (Ref:3884405)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touring fan01

not just bmw.
every rwd car (bmw and subaru) has exactly the same standing-start boost reduction up to the same speed to equalise their starts

and it cant possibly be too "punitive" as rwd cars have won the last two championships and its a rwd car that has won the most races in each of the last two years!

Your right, results dont lie, and whilst they have won the last 2 championships, how many races did BMW win last year? Was it 1? (I haven’t looked TBH). Also the BMW was one of the slowest in a straight line, and they rarely had the fastest car on a weekend. I think part of the problem is that when you invoke a performance measure for Subaru, the BMW has to inherit that also, and due to the Subaru being a freakshow in terms of its construction, it doesn't favour BMW at all that they are subject to some of the same measures.

crmalcolm · 15 Feb 2019, 15:31 (Ref:3884406)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Again I don’t know for sure, because this stuff isn’t written anywhere in the regs or on the BTCC official pages. I assume this applies to Subaru as well, but again, no official documentation published so, who knows...?

It's written very clearly in the regulations, and official documentation that is published to the teams.
It's not open source, hence you not having seen it, but it does exist and is included in the Technical Regulations, supplemented by bulletins issued to the teams.

touring fan01 · 15 Feb 2019, 15:41 (Ref:3884408)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Your right, results dont lie, and whilst they have won the last 2 championships, how many races did BMW win last year? Was it 1? (I haven’t looked TBH). Also the BMW was one of the slowest in a straight line, and they rarely had the fastest car on a weekend. I think part of the problem is that when you invoke a performance measure for Subaru, the BMW has to inherit that also, and due to the Subaru being a freakshow in terms of its construction, it doesn't favour BMW at all that they are subject to some of the same measures.

bmw won the championship against by far the toughest amount of opposition seen for many years.

that says it all.

Alfisti · 15 Feb 2019, 16:10 (Ref:3884416)

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

well yeah i got that much from their announcement about the announcement

I just havent really seen any whispers about who it might be, we knew it would be Smiley, we know its not JP, im still saying James Cole but its all a bit quiet so this could be a bit of a surprise one, (although by now someone has come on here knowing who it is)

Maybe it's Martin Brundle getting in on the act...

mprmke · 15 Feb 2019, 16:16 (Ref:3884417)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sceptic

Yes, it's announcing their second driver.

Who has been signed since 7th January. Or at least the deal was agreed in principle on 7th January...

Sodemo · 15 Feb 2019, 16:28 (Ref:3884423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touring fan01

bmw won the championship against by far the toughest amount of opposition seen for many years.

that says it all.

By being consistent, not through outright car pace.

Robin Marriott · 15 Feb 2019, 16:30 (Ref:3884424)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mprmke

Who has been signed since 7th January. Or at least the deal was agreed in principle on 7th January...

Someone from the class of 2018?

touring fan01 · 15 Feb 2019, 16:34 (Ref:3884426)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

By being consistent, not through outright car pace.

so?
theres not a driver or team on the grid who wouldnt be ecstatic to have won the championship in that way against 16 other race winners.

crmalcolm · 15 Feb 2019, 17:01 (Ref:3884434)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

By being consistent, not through outright car pace.

Consistently competitive enough to score regular points, in enough quantity to take the title.

Doesn't sound like a hampered car to me?

S griffin · 15 Feb 2019, 18:25 (Ref:3884452)

The car was never the fastest in 2018, but it was always a good little runner and that’s what got it the title

Alfisti · 15 Feb 2019, 20:39 (Ref:3884475)

Personally I put it down to Colins calm, considered driving style. In many ways he reminds me of Damon Hill: smooth measured inputs on the controls, never too vicious cornering or braking, sympathetic to the machine. Generally not too exciting to watch, but fast lap times are not necessarily achieved by driving on the ragged edge.

I'd say the BMW was pretty well hampered as poor old Rob C seemed to struggle more often than not for pace: Rob is a competent, fast driver and I don't believe that skill set had left him just like I don't believe it has left JP.

S griffin · 15 Feb 2019, 20:56 (Ref:3884479)

Colin only really is on the limit when he needs to be, otherwise he lets things come to him. Certainly his moves are usually so precise and clean too

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