Donington Park - Project GP 2010

[GORDON STREETER]

I said on here a little while back that I was at a big wedding and was talking to "someone" who is really in the know as to what is happening. He certainly didn't mince words at the time and it seems to me what I was told is coming true, he even gave me dates. I could never divulge who it was as I would probably be shot !

[Al Weyman]

I was at Tom Wheatcroft's daughters wedding but as that was about nearly 20 years ago it can't have been that one! :-)

[Chris Y]

Can anyone translate this into plain English? :http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79420

Is this the fabled debenture scheme? Or some other weird funding scam involving playing about with other people's money on the basis of a chequered history and a few empty promises?

[Benny1664]

Haha, you beat me to it! What on earth does that mean in English?!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

Is this the fabled debenture scheme? Or some other weird funding scam involving playing about with other people's money on the basis of a chequered history and a few empty promises?

Looks to me like you give them lots of money, they give you an IOU post-dated to 2016!

. . . & this is going to raise £135 million?

[Dave 455]

I wonder why the re-build costs £135,000,000 now and 2 weeks ago it was only going to cost £80,000,000?

[Al Weyman]

Oh that looks good, I must rush out and invest as much as I can. Yeah right I think that project is doomed who will invest in that?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Dave 455

I wonder why the re-build costs £135,000,000 now and 2 weeks ago it was only going to cost £80,000,000?

Explained elswhere as owed sums for work alrerady carried out, back rent, and other liabilities.

As I said elswhere, all very "sub-prime".

[Al Weyman]

My God what firm in their right minds would take that contract on now, they will know they will be on a hiding for nothing. I just hope when he finally leaves as he will its not the end of this fine motor racing venue I couldnt give a damn where the GP is held as I will never watch it.

[R59]

What it means is - you all buy seats in the hostility suits at £xK each. They chuck all of that cash in a couple of suitcases and move in next to Gordon in Mojacar.

Or they actually pay the builders, and Bernie, and it all comes up smelling of new tarmac and roses.

It seems that the former has more favourites in the betting stakes than the latter.

In two weeks time, I expect to be able to buy an advance ticket for the British GP at Brooklands.

[terence]

They are on-line now.

[Tim the Grey]

Where? I've been all over Donington's site. No sign of them.

I found their earth mover partners, though.
http://www.donington-park.co.uk/about-us/partners about halfway down...

[Peter Mallett]

Interesting so rathert than allowing the contractor to locate its own resources they were restricted to Ruttle. As I recall Ruttle is a large company but this is a strange set up because contractor's usually apply a fair amount of risk reduction to plant hire. Another reason for the deal to go pop, no flexibility.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Looks to me like you give them lots of money, they give you an IOU post-dated to 2016

So if I get this right they are offering investors 15% p.a when base rates are 0.5% on a loan of £135 million to be repaid in 7 years. So they will need to service an annual interest bill of £20.25 million per annum?

And they have to pay BE presumably £10 mil or so per annum?

That means an annual profit of well over £30 million is needed just to break even surely?

Or have I missed something.

[bdwoody]

yeah that can be done £500 a ticket to see the gp , £500 an entry for a clubbie race ,£500 a car for a track day....simples .........NOT !

[EastonNeston]

A question, or 4, for Peter, or anyone else with knowlege of the construction industry.

Starting from the current state of the Donington Park site what would be a realistic timescale for the planned changes to the track and facilities?

What would be the optimum time for such a large project?

With such major rshaping of the layout, will the ground be stable as the work is been done over the winter? Or will the developers be left with a track that is subject to ground shifts that will need to be regraded and resurfaced after a few months?

The logistics of the planned developent seem to be impossible, especially if a quality product is wanted at the end.

thanks

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

A question, or 4, for Peter, or anyone else with knowlege of the construction industry.

Starting from the current state of the Donington Park site what would be a realistic timescale for the planned changes to the track and facilities?

What would be the optimum time for such a large project?

With such major rshaping of the layout, will the ground be stable as the work is been done over the winter? Or will the developers be left with a track that is subject to ground shifts that will need to be regraded and resurfaced after a few months?

The logistics of the planned developent seem to be impossible, especially if a quality product is wanted at the end.

thanks

This was posted in the F1 thread in 2008.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Having gone through this thread it seems there is a fair balance of opinion, and why not? Personally I rail at the suggestion that Silverstone deserves a bashing or indeed that it’s humorous to think the BRDC is suffering, because they’re a “club”. Mainly because the clubs (and the BRDC is one of the most prolific) are the only means of getting youngsters out of karts and into F1 or any higher level of the sport in this country. In fact as benefactors the BRDC has done a lot for this sport we all profess to love, so I for one don’t begrudge them their clubhouse etc. Even now there are very few “rich uncles” to look after the hopeful racers, witness Ant.

So to suggest this is good or even mildly humorous, because it satisfies some kind of anti authoritarian fetish is arguably sad, if not absurd. That said what of Donington? (For those who love it but can’t spell btw, there’s only three n’s in Donington.).

Well for one, as has been suggested, there is no firm planning permission published but as I understand it (correct me if I’m wrong), if the building line of the property isn’t affected then the permission (as far as construction goes) is a formality. However the environmental issues are more difficult to resolve.

The layout posted earlier actually looks interesting, except it takes away one of the two main overtaking places on the circuit. Add to that the loss of Coppice as a difficult corner and you really have (IMO) got your work cut out to make this interesting for the driver based on that plan, but we’ll stick with it because we have nothing else ATM.

The need to expend over £100m in two years (in fact 18 months because it will need inspection) is somewhat optimistic, especially in light of the current economic climate. There may be a plan to take advantage of the UK construction market by squeezing the price on the basis of available cash, which is OK until you find that the cheapest company was only cheap because it had sold its assets to pay off its dept. Then who does Bernie sue when there’s no track? The process of design, specifying and tendering £100m of work is approx 8 months even if you fast track and design/build it. After that there’s the pain of developing the design to meet what you actually need which adds cost and time, to the extent…………….. well I made that point earlier. The cash flow on that would suggest a major contractor not a small outfit due to the normal payment structure of these projects. That means the £100m is really £135 (ish).

So, if this is going to work then the planning/environmental approval must necessarily be completed and received and the tenders must already be out there (any QS worth his salt will concur with this). A negotiated single source bid process would need serious support from the major investors which would also take time. In which case there’s at least three months of decision making to go.

Now we are down to 15 months. (Cash flow again?).

The circuit changes are possibly the most difficult of the entire scheme. Building techniques are pretty straightforward so the construction of the new pits etc. are unlikely to be critical path, however to realign the track will need a clear period, and let’s not forget that to build the new pit buildings etc. we have to cross the track layout with cables, pipes etc. (if we consider the design as posted), so unless they are closing the circuit now we have at least four more months to go (not allowing for weather), so our construction schedule is now 11 months. Looks tight doesn’t it? Taking an average man hour rate of £80.00 per hour including plant, materials, overheads and labour that means 700 people working on site! Where will they fit?

I notice a contract has been signed so taking that at face value, it means the owners of the circuit have got some serious work to do. Personally I think it’s a shame because unlike many I believe Silverstone and what it stands for is important in world wide motor sport (it is a bloody good circuit too). Donington was always a spectacular but ultimately small time bit player in international motor sport, but it has a place because of that. Now, if this goes ahead, that has been lost and for me that is the biggest shame. Donington is going to be Bahrain with extra “rain”. Nothing more, nothing less.

Good luck to them but for me it is just one more nail in the coffin of Formula 1. Oh wait, it isn't that anymore is it?

BTW. My calcs are open to critique.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by R59

What it means is - you all buy seats in the hostility suits at £xK each. They chuck all of that cash in a couple of suitcases and move in next to Gordon in Mojacar.

I know "one", but we need a few more of them down here to keep the economy afloat

[Last2LiftOff]

Yeah, some prize.

[EastonNeston]

Peter, thank you for the answer. It seems to me as a non expert, it is now logisticaly impossible to complete the circuit in time, even if we started today?

I would think that even an average British winter would have many days where the major earthworks and outsoor construction would be unviable even if it was possible.

[Flavio Galtieri]

As far as I can see it would be cheaper for DVL to get funding with a cash advance on Mr Gillett's credit card than issue discounted bonds at 15%.p.a.

He could then apply for a Tesco's card at 0% for 12 months and transfer the balance.....

Damn, didn't mean to give him ideas.

[terence]

Always assuming that he would actually qualify for one,I thought that credit history came into the equation these day's?

[Al Weyman]

This is not going to happen is it, you could tell from the buzz about it on F1 over the weekend.

[Flavio Galtieri]

http://www.donington-park.co.uk/corp...s?news_id=1103

It all looks a bit desperate to me. This is the last throw of the dice.

Four days to go? A new Chairman elect?

Because those with the money to invest have no confidence in Gillett.

[terence]

Funny how Motor Sport historicly attracts some 'iffy' people.Like paying for your racing using drug money!