Grand Am making its move, is it time for ALMS to make its move?

[veeten]

Personally, I see this from a different direction...

Remember two things; a) this will be a stand alone series, so that makes it less likely to intefere with either NASCAR or Grand Am in their 'mission statements', meaning no BMW Sprint Cup M3s or the like. b)it will use new-gen rules, which may mean using chassis other than what is being run presently. Instead of using 3-Series, C-Class, and A4 chassis, there might be a shift towards the intermediate-class chassis, such as 5 Series, E-Class or A6.

Why? Simple, it would allow for involvement of American manufacturers such as Cadillac (CTS) and Chrysler (300), as they would fit the overall scheme of an American-based version of DTM. Lexus and Infiniti will also be involved, as an opportunity would be hard to pass up.

Let us remember, it's called Deuchen Touring Masters, and it is more towards sedans than coupes.

[Speed-King]

Through the years, there have been many Coupe-bodied cars in DTM... I don't know the exact ratio as compared to sedans, but until 2005 there have afaik always been some Coupes in the series.

Just from the top of my head:

BMW M3
Opel Calibra
Opel Astra Coupe
Mercedes CLK
Audi TT
Ford Sierra
Ford Mustang

And with the rules-mergerwith Japanese GT, it actually makes even more sense to move to the Coupe-bodies...

[Japanese Samurai]

DTM might be converted to the coupe.
In Super GT, the sedan can become the base vehicle of GT500 from 2012.
Media asked Masaaki Bandoh(chairman of GTA) whether this had foreseen the regulation union with DTM.
He answered that this regulations were unrelated to the regulation unification affairs with DTM.
In addition, he said that he would hear that DTM changed into the coupe.
Therefore, it is interesting whether the 2013 union regulation adopts the coupe or the sedan.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mal

This could become extremely popular if Ford or GM decide to join in.

That could be. But I have to think that if they are running second fiddle at Nascar events, the Nascar fans who show up for the main race won't bother coming for the support series. I am saying this as someone who has never been to a nascar race, but I have seen on tv that truck or nationwide series races don't have nearly the number of seats filled as the main event.


Also, Ford and GM have both said recently that they get little return on their investments by running nascar, so would running in a nascar support series improve that? Or would sportscar fans buy nascar tickets to go see the dtm cars? perhaps on grandam events, but I doubt on ovals...

[Speed-King]

From what I've read, the NASCAR road races draw a different crowd than the regular oval races, with lots of knowledgable general racing fans in attendance, so that might increase the DTM-series chances of success.

[JAG]

The DTM/Super GT link is the real news.

Both series are what they are because tens of millions are spent promoting them as the premier series in their home countries, thats before car and pro driver costs are even considered.

DTM and Super GT have tried overseas events which struggled so playing support act to the alien NASCAR series and Grand-Am is going to be a hard sell.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

The DTM/Super GT link is the real news.

Both series are what they are because tens of millions are spent promoting them as the premier series in their home countries, thats before car and pro driver costs are even considered.

DTM and Super GT have tried overseas events which struggled so playing support act to the alien NASCAR series and Grand-Am is going to be a hard sell.

L.P.

[helgi]

We'll see.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by helgi

We'll see.

Just judging by how afraid the ACO-camp on here is of this series, it should have a great future...

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Just judging by how afraid the ACO-camp on here is of this series, it should have a great future...

Huh, it is comments such as that which start all the SH_TE in these threads!

It may very well succeed, but I am highly skeptical of it doing so! It is not a desire to see DTM fail in N, America. I just do not believe there to be enough fan base nor big money to support it! Nor do I believe that the participants of DTM wish to prop up a series not on home soil.





L.P.

[helgi]

Wasn't IMSA GTO series popular? It's strange but Audi 90 and Toyota Celica were the first silhouettes I've seen in my life.

I can't understand why they can not resurrect smth like that champ in a new format. DTM series is not going to USA, as I understand, brands are trying to make a global formula to sell cars for American and Japanese private teams. Sprint races with cars as powerfull and as quick as DP should be very interesting. Maybe Bruno Spengler and Mattias Ekstrom will participate in that series.

[TF110]

DTM is likely faster than DP cars. They'll probably be even faster since they're moving to a Carbon Fiber chassis/like SuperGT currently uses. DTM cars currently are almost as fast as SuperGT and faster than GT cars from the ACO, SuperGT is limited in HP to 500, but with new regulations the car might weigh less, possibly only 1000kg, since they're at 1050kg now (DTM) and they'll be moving to carbon fiber chassis'. I donno, just guessing on my part, I don't think the 2012 regulations are even out yet are they? But I don't see them playing 'support' to G.A. I think the popularity of SuperGT has greatly increased, you can thank Gran Turismo for that, and if they're in conjunction with DTM, it might just be a popular venue. I know I'd go see it, as well as just about every other SuperGT or DTM fan on this site if they had the means.

[chernaudi]

DTM cars already use carbon tubs with a steel roll cage, like the McLaren F1 and Merc CLK-GTR. Super GT has used a similar chassis (carbon tub and steel roll cage) since 2009. I don't know why people say that DTM cars are spaceframe chassis aside from the roll cage and front/rear subframes, as the area around the driver and most of the middle of the car is built around a carbon monocoque.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

If this does happen, I wonder who field the cars. Grand Am teams like Ganassi, Suntrust and Gainsco? or even somebody like Turner Motorsports or Bobby Rahal? European Factory Teams? Current NASCAR teams? This could potentially be interesting but there are still a lot of questions to be answered. I'm just not sure a series like DTM would have a big enough fan-base in America. Perhaps putting NASCAR stars like Johnson, Stewart and Earnhardt in the cars would help, even though it's done little to nothing to help grand am.

[JAG]

This thread started with discussions about new DP's and a fleet of GT3's taking the fight to the ALMS.

Now it seems the overhauled DP's have already been written off and the GT3 revolution has been put to one side in the hope DTM/Super GT manufacturers are going to spend tens of millions in NASCAR's back yard.............on their support card.

Meanwhile the ALMS has rounded out their season in front of 120k but it's apparently over optimistic to expect the series to grow with new teams and LMP's.

[Speed-King]

Now it seems the overhauled DP's have already been written off

By whom exactly?

and the GT3 revolution has been put to one side

That must be why a recent rules-bulletin specified that single-nut-wheels will be allowed in GARRA next year...

in the hope DTM/Super GT manufacturers are going to spend tens of millions in NASCAR's back yard.............on their support card.

Honest answer: how would you react if they had gone to IMSA instead and asked them to sanction that series... Come to think about it, with Audi's long time engagement in ALMS, IMSA should have been the go-to-guys for that project...

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Honest answer: how would you react if they had gone to IMSA instead and asked them to sanction that series... Come to think about it, with Audi's long time engagement in ALMS, IMSA should have been the go-to-guys for that project...

Evidently the ALMS feels confident enough in its current format and commitments not to change its GTC class to appease Audi. Nor does it seem that it thinks it needs the spectacle of the DTM to bolster its appeal.

As to IMSA sanctioning it, who knows, as that is pure speculation. As a stand alone series they may have sanctioned it, but we will never know, or so it seems. I like DTM, for DTM.


L.P.

[TF110]

I've always thought that G.A. should go the route of DTM/SuperGT. The DP's aren't appealing, they aren't like LMP cars in the sense that you know who runs them. There's no 'factory' DP. LMP is much more easy, for me, to associate who, or what runs them and fields them. DP to me always seemed like a low-level LMP type of deal with different engines in a spec chassis. Which I never liked. This is why I thought that instead of having DP's they should just run SuperGT or DTM style cars since they're basically as fast, but more recognizable. Who would mistake an A4 or M3 or C350 or even GTR and SC430 if they were running? Everyone would associate it with the road car, because more or less they look like the road car, be it an extreme version of it. That just seemed more relevant than some DP's with different makes of engines.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

I've always thought that G.A. should go the route of DTM/SuperGT. The DP's aren't appealing, they aren't like LMP cars in the sense that you know who runs them. There's no 'factory' DP. LMP is much more easy, for me, to associate who, or what runs them and fields them. DP to me always seemed like a low-level LMP type of deal with different engines in a spec chassis. Which I never liked. This is why I thought that instead of having DP's they should just run SuperGT or DTM style cars since they're basically as fast, but more recognizable. Who would mistake an A4 or M3 or C350 or even GTR and SC430 if they were running? Everyone would associate it with the road car, because more or less they look like the road car, be it an extreme version of it. That just seemed more relevant than some DP's with different makes of engines.

The DPs will not go away from GA. Andy's renderings do improve their looks, IMO.




L.P.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

The DPs will not go away from GA.

I wouldn't be so certain...

[TF110]

Regardless if they go away, the DP's currently are pretty pathetic if you ask me. Yeah they will change their look and everything, and maybe to better resemble road cars, but for what? It's all in the air it seems. SuperGT and DTM being courted to run behind the DP's? I doubt it. If they're going to run it'd have to be in a separate race or they'd have to be the higher class.

[helgi]

I think it wouldn't harm anybody if that new series will be going alongside with some Grand-Am events. And all that innovations will be at their places: sprint DTM races and marathons of Grand-Am. I don't understand why people interested in road-racing will come to the autodrom only for the main event. Besides, ALMS already has GT2 class that is filled with European cars for 80 per cent, and people find it interesting.

[Speed-King]

Officially official

[helgi]

Quod erat demonstrandum.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I wouldn't be so certain...

I would. There's a lot of DP chassis out there. The platform isn't going away, especially after the updates.