[Driver] 2018 F1 silly season.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

He's doing you a favour and telling you...

Actually I don't know if favors are being done? I know you guys don't want or like to hear this type of feedback, but dropping single sentence "info" generates questions such as "where is this coming from?" There is a big difference between...

Honda discussions with Toro Rosso are not over

...and...

Rumor circulating in the Belgium paddock this weekend is that that discussions between Honda and Toro Rosso are not over.

Plus... pretty much all of this has been reported/speculated on by the press recently. As well as over time, a good bit has not worked out to be accurate after the fact (which is fine, but just be clear what is fact vs speculation/rumor). So it's hard to figure out if some people are at home in their comfy chair and just recycling things already reported... or are typing away from deep within the restricted areas of the paddock reporting on what is actually happening!

I appreciate the on the spot reporting from those in the know. I really do. It can really add to the value of the discussion. But when the tid bits are clearly more cryptic than they need to be, or duplicates of what has been publicly reported earlier, it creates doubt as to authenticity.

Richard

[gert]

Do I remember correctly that there is a minimum percentage of the grid each engine manufacturer has to be able to provide?
As in: 10 teams and 4 manufactures: each one has to be able to provide 2.5 -> 3 teams.

What happens if there are only 3 manufacturers?
10 /3 = 3.3 -> 4.

Let's suppose McLaren could convince Honda to withdraw so there are in fact only 3 engine manufacturers left.

Would that give them essentially a choice of engine (provided they can afford to pay them)?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by gert

Do I remember correctly that there is a minimum percentage of the grid each engine manufacturer has to be able to provide?
As in: 10 teams and 4 manufactures: each one has to be able to provide 2.5 -> 3 teams.

What happens if there are only 3 manufacturers?
10 /3 = 3.3 -> 4.

Let's suppose McLaren could convince Honda to withdraw so there are in fact only 3 engine manufacturers left.

Would that give them essentially a choice of engine (provided they can afford to pay them)?

I think the rules say manufacturers should equip 3 teams but it might not say they have to and a few teams have deals with their supplier regarding blocking supply deals. If Honda leaves it could get tricky because no one wants them getting any of the three engines left and Bernie couldn't force open the engine supply deals.

Plus I think it's doubtful Honda would pull out any time soon. The rest of Honda's expensive car racing seems to be mostly HPD's money.

[chunterer]

Now that STR-Honda has gone flat, I wonder if the Alonso-Williams rumour is actually more like a McLaren - Williams engine swap negotiation underneath.

Can't see Williams giving up the Mercs unless there is something serious in it for them.

But you have to say it is a waste of an engine when the McLaren chassis is clearly very good.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Great news for Ferrari that Kimi accepted a renewed contract. There are no other drivers who even close to the talent that Kimi continues to possess. Ferrari knows they would literally fall apart without him.

I don't fully agree. Kimi has claimed four podiums this year, four in 2016 and three in 2015. He is a decent sidekicker, but it's a weaker duo than Hamilton-Bottas.

[tux]

More chance of a Yellow Torro Rosso with a red chicken on the side being on the grid than any Honda powered cars IMO 😘

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Toro Rosso and Honda partnership not quite over yet. Discussions ongoing, apparently.

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

And your evidence or source of this for this is?

Well this has just appeared on Motorsport.com. Because when I posted about it 3 days ago it was BS. Now that Motorsport.com have reported on it, is true and accurate. Right??

A Toro Rosso switch for Honda makes sense on many levels – for it will ensure a financial boost for the Faenza-based team, will keep Honda in F1 and will help McLaren’s future competitiveness.

Talks about such a scenario playing out have already reached an advanced stage and are ongoing, despite them appearing to have collapsed over the summer.

Subsequent denials from Toro Rosso and Honda that there had been any ‘official talks’ about the matter were intriguingly dispelled by McLaren last weekend as the team revealed it had been asked to supply gearboxes for any potential deal.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...enault-946783/

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Well this has just appeared on Motorsport.com. Because when I posted about it 3 days ago it was BS. Now that Motorsport.com have reported on it, is true and accurate.

Just remember you can't beat or help the armchair know-it-alls! LOL

[gert]

As per Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...t-moves-closer)

... With McLaren believed to be adamant it will not carry on with Honda in 2018...
... Losing McLaren without an alternative team in place would force Honda out of F1 too...
... Honda's departure would open up a scenario where FIA rules dictate that one of the current engine manufacturers must supply McLaren for 2018 ...

That (possible) situation is what I actually meant here

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Well this has just appeared on Motorsport.com. Because when I posted about it 3 days ago it was BS. Now that Motorsport.com have reported on it, is true and accurate. Right??

If your responding to my comment... I didn't say it was BS. I said short tid bits just results in more questions and that sometimes the "news" is not new. But read responses to your posts in whatever way makes you happy or reinforces your opinions of this forum.

My take on this is that it has all been speculation from the beginning. First the talks with TR ( which I have no reason to doubt because Honda needs at best a second team and at worst a replacement for McLaren), to the "collapse " of those same discussions to now that there was no collapse? In short, the new speculation is saying the earlier speculation was wrong? I am absolutely shocked that some of the rumors and speculation was wrong!

Richard

[gert]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

And your evidence or source of this for this is?

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Well this has just appeared on Motorsport.com. Because when I posted about it 3 days ago it was BS. Now that Motorsport.com have reported on it, is true and accurate. Right??

I don't think it is outrageous to ask for a little more info when someone posts a rumor or (as of then unknown) fact. Is it?
Your post got questioned, but I don't remember anyone called it BS.

Lots of rumors/facts/possibilities get posted without any background info, notably during the off-season. Some of them true, some of them just speculation, some nothing more than fantasy.

Hence, I don't think it's surprising people ask for info.

[Richard C]

If we can move beyond this...



...because my handbag is bruised from combat.

Originally Posted by gert

As per Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...t-moves-closer)


That (possible) situation is what I actually meant here

Both articles ring true to me. It is the same complicated multi part switch discussed earlier. Just lots of players that have to be satisfied for it to work.

What I am not sure about is that I suspect the scenario you describe is meant to cover a "force majeure" situation in which an engine manufacturer abandons the sport and not the other way around. So let's say McLaren breaks their contract with Honda and then approaches FOM (or whoever makes this decision) and asks for a new engine partner. Why would FOM force another manufacturer to provide beyond their maximum allocation when Honda may still be standing there saying... "Here we are... ready to provide an engine!"

As hinted at in one of the articles, I suspect there is ZERO support from those who would make the decision to allow McLaren to push Honda out of F1 and triggering another manufacturer to step in to save them from a self created situation. Especially given... while having issues... McLaren is close, but not at the back of the grid from a points perspective. It's not that the Honda solution is not workable (as they may like to claim) but rather it's not what they wanted.

I think the only solutions (assuming Honda does not voluntarily leave the sports) is for McLaren to stick with Honda, or for Honda to find a new partner plus free up an engine for McLaren (TR deal). I would like to see McLaren, Honda and Alonso be successful, but if the complicated Bottas deal could be made to work at the end of last season, don't count out this Honda/Renault/McLaren/TR deal.

Richard

[wimiu012uk]

Just heard from a reliable source
Alonso to Williams for 2018, Honda part pay wages and Williams get Honda engine in 2019
McLaren stick with Honda for 2018 with a Japanese driver on a one year deal
TR get Honda engines for a very reasonable price for 2018
Honda come good back end of 2017 and provide best engines in 2018
Alonso looses out again in 2018

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wimiu012uk

Just heard from a reliable source
Alonso to Williams for 2018, Honda part pay wages and Williams get Honda engine in 2019
McLaren stick with Honda for 2018 with a Japanese driver on a one year deal
TR get Honda engines for a very reasonable price for 2018
Honda come good back end of 2017 and provide best engines in 2018
Alonso looses out again in 2018

Interesting. If true, the Alonso to Williams part is interesting. Mostly because... Williams is struggling right now and I see no reason for significant improvement in 2018. Question is... If as you say this includes a Honda engine in Williams in 2019... Might Williams be getting much of the cash infusion that McLaren is getting now? Will that cash help turn around Williams?

And.. McLaren comes out the loser in all of this?

Richard

[B0U170NS]

Originally Posted by wimiu012uk

Just heard from a reliable source
Alonso to Williams for 2018, Honda part pay wages and Williams get Honda engine in 2019
McLaren stick with Honda for 2018 with a Japanese driver on a one year deal
TR get Honda engines for a very reasonable price for 2018
Honda come good back end of 2017 and provide best engines in 2018
Alonso looses out again in 2018

If Mclaren and Toro Rosso do swap engines for next year (and I would be disappointed if they did), I hope Mclaren only sign a 1 year deal with Renault, allowing Honda to return to Mclaren in 2019 if they can get their engine competitive. If Mclaren cut all ties with Honda, just to keep eyebrow man happy, it could come back to bite them.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Interesting. If true, the Alonso to Williams part is interesting. Mostly because... Williams is struggling right now and I see no reason for significant improvement in 2018. Question is... If as you say this includes a Honda engine in Williams in 2019... Might Williams be getting much of the cash infusion that McLaren is getting now? Will that cash help turn around Williams?

And.. McLaren comes out the loser in all of this?

Richard

I think wimiu012uk is another to succumb to tongueincheekitis. It's clearly quite contagious.....

[RWill2073]

Yeah, that one doesn't make sense. Why would Alonso go somewhere along with Honda engines? If williams are getting Honda's, I don't think Alonso would go there. If McLaren is swapping from Honda's, it would make it more likely Alonso stays, imo. Although we all know as soon as honda and alonso are separated, the honda will then become the class of the field.

[djinvicta]

Yes, but Honda pay Alonso's wages...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Yeah, that one doesn't make sense. Why would Alonso go somewhere along with Honda engines? If williams are getting Honda's, I don't think Alonso would go there. If McLaren is swapping from Honda's, it would make it more likely Alonso stays, imo. Although we all know as soon as honda and alonso are separated, the honda will then become the class of the field.

Assuming it is true... and that is a big assumption... would it make more sense if Alonso had a one year contract with Williams (which would run a Mercedes engine during his year there so he escapes the Honda madness). Might Alonso have a 2019 contract elsewhere already lined up?

I will laugh if Alonso bails on Honda and it then Honda gets their act together in 2018.

Richard

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Assuming it is true... and that is a big assumption... would it make more sense if Alonso had a one year contract with Williams (which would run a Mercedes engine during his year there so he escapes the Honda madness). Might Alonso have a 2019 contract elsewhere already lined up?

I will laugh if Alonso bails on Honda and it then Honda gets their act together in 2018.

Richard

I mean, you just know that'll be Alonso's luck, right?

I've posted about it a few time a for a few months now, and I find it interrsting that even the nbcsn crew have begun mentioning it. I think a McLaren IndyCar for Alonso for next year would be the best solution all around. They could pair with andretti or ganassi and he could go for a championship there while still being tied to the f1 team not named Mercedes or Ferrari with the best chassis while waiting for Honda to get it right. At this point, unless he replaces Hamilton at mercedes for some weird reason, McLaren is probably his best chance at contending for a title. It's interesting that lately will Buxton and the rest of that crew have alluded to similar possibilities.

[mceci1]

Interesting to note that the chances of Kubica returning to F1 (age I assume, he is 33/34) are now very slim. So who does that allow into Renault, resign Palmer, or take up Alonso. Could take Wehrlin but Mercedes will play the game of politics.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If your responding to my comment...

Not sure why I'd bother, but.. sorry, no. I wasn't.
Most likely didn't read your "comment".

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

No, I wasn't. Most likely didn't read your "comment".

You do see the issue with your logic, right?

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

You do see the issue with your logic, right?

Richard

You know what. I am going to do my best to stop any posts that might be considered snarky. I am not looking to be combative with anyone. So sorry for the above.

Richard

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

You know what. I am going to do my best to stop any posts that might be considered snarky. I am not looking to be combative with anyone. So sorry for the above.

Richard

Probably best Richard, some here don't get the concept others put across, and at that, I have seen some pretty ridiculous calls of what is insulting or inflammatory here lately, as well as double standards