Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[Graz]

Hats off to them for trying sometihng different that they feel will work. Wait and see before yiz jump all over them. Personally I don't think it ultimately will but they were running maybe 30% of their capability so I'm prepared to wait. I think them running (albeit slowly and unrelaiably) has been beneficial - a test in the full heat of battle and public glare.

[aneesh99]

It's kind of hard not to start ranting so I'll try to keep it succinct.

As sports car racing fans, we often criticise other race series (looking at you open wheelers) for lacking innovation and diversity. And yet when Nissan come along and try to mix things up even more, there are fans that throw their toys out of the pram. What gives?

Edit: I will say the PR centric stuff is 'slightly' annoying at times. Talk about making yourself a target DC

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

They pulled out of Silverstone and Spa and maybe they should have pulled out of Le Mans and this year's WEC season completely and left it for another year but they didn't and decided to go racing; so I commend them for that and they will learn a hell of a lot from it.

I think it's great that they decided to race the car anyway. It's going to be interesting to watch their progress.

[MagVanisher]

@Coopz21 x
While I would love to see Nissan improve after their disappointing race weekend in Le Mans, it'll take a herculean task of turning around their fortunes.

[juicy sushi]

I rather think Mulsanne Mike summed it up best:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2015.html

It's very early days, and I will be interested in seeing where it goes. If the current hybrid system doesn't work, could or should they switch to something else?

[Keycube]

Well, a bit painful to watch at times, but some definite positives; the ICE seemed plentiful and reliable, eh? And yeoman's effort from the boys in the garage. Props for skirting the rules and using an open door as a moveable aerodynamic device. Those bad boys!

I was watching through the ACO app and spent a lot of time in the cars themselves; it seemed the Nissans had a lot of "hop" in the corners; was this likely because of ungripping/regripping of the rears for lack of grip? Or the from the fronts being overworked? Or none of the above?

All in all, a bit disappointing (and strangely exhausting, as this thread became!), but I'm looking forward to watching the car develop with a bit of a lower bar established in terms of achievement. Mustn't let the marginal result detract from the smiles had while getting the peeks behind the scenes. It's been fun.

[Salamus]

Let's not forget that they had some terrible luck come their way too. They had a major setback when they hit something during the night.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by joeb

One piece I caught in a driver interview on RLM was that the driver (can't remember which one) said they are already working on the 2016 gearbox. I thought it was odd that they singled out the gearbox but it made me wonder if this was the part that was the trouble in mating the hybrid.

Hi!!!

[bentley speed 8]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Let's not forget that they had some terrible luck come their way too. They had a major setback when they hit something during the night.

Do we still know what they hit? I heard everything from a tyre, beaver or a big cat....

Anyway good to see them finish, although dead last and not even classified. Clearly the entire car revolves around a WORKING hybrid system, so it is pretty difficult to judge anything yet.
But as others said, the straight line speed was there, although cornening did look kind of bad

[MoMedic9019]

1. This was a success.... many of the detractors that have posted it was not, well, I expected that. Quit grumbling... All of the cars made it well into darkness. The AMR-One many are comparing it to, lasted two, and four laps.... If you want to compare it to that program, go ahead, but your argument is invalid. And wrong.

2. "It has no pace" Well. They are running less power than an LMP2 car, with more weight... what do you expect? 3:10's??

3. "It can't get around corners"... it's a work in progress. Just like a touring car, and, as Marshall Pruett actually photographed, it turns like a touring car in slow corners. It picks up the rear tire...so, it's going to push, and it will need to have the suspension adjusted to maintain grip, and forward momentum. This is part of the reason that Gene had such a hard time coming to grips with the car. In it's current form, it has to be driven completely differently.

4. The car had its issues in servicing... but so has everyone else. Until you actually work on the car under race conditions, it's hard to know what needs to be done differently...

They will learn. They will develop. They will get quicker.

As I've always said. It just needs time. If it fails, it fails. If they abandon it and come back with something else... fine... It's up to Nissan to make it work, and we should all be thankful they've chosen to come and play.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Do we still know what they hit? I heard everything from a tyre, beaver or a big cat....

It appeared to be the front fender from the Hanergy Aston.

It came back without it, though, there was no mention of where it was lost. I'm wondering if it was never seen by the marshalls in the dark.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

I think it's great that they decided to race the car anyway. It's going to be interesting to watch their progress.

Indeed and at the next round, the Nürburgring, I believe they will be running a different configuration?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

2. "It has no pace" Well. They are running less power than an LMP2 car, with more weight... what do you expect? 3:10's??

You got it backwards: Nissan should weigh 30 kg less than LMP2 and have at least 50 hp more

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Indeed and at the next round, the Nürburgring, I believe they will be running a different configuration?

Yep. Different aero package.

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

You got it backwards: Nissan should weigh 30 kg less than LMP2 and have at least 50 hp more

Well we were told the Nissan was overweight and it's been mentioned that the engine was turned down to ~470bhp

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

You got it backwards: Nissan should weigh 30 kg less than LMP2 and have at least 50 hp more

Yes, if the car was at minimums... which it isn't.

[pirenzo]

Once the race got underway I kind of forgot about the Nissans. During the night and early morning I wasn't even sure if they were still running, but I am pleased they got a car to the finish, even if it was unclassified (and completed barely half the laps of the winner).

I note that they ran the car with lower rake and more rearward aero bias than they had at either the test day or during testing. Did they do this because they discovered the Michelin tires weren't balanced (performance-wise) as they expected, or because they were trying to take the load off the front brakes? It seemed to make the car look less stable than it had in any of the testing onboards.

They really do need to get the hybrid system working though. I wouldn't be surprised if they now miss the rest of the WEC to sort it out behind closed doors. I understand why they couldn't miss Le Mans, but the WEC is a lower priority.
EDIT: it seems the talk a few posts back of a new aero package for the Nurburgring dismisses that suggestion!

[Lagunaseca_4life]

They lasted longer than I thought, and got one car to the end although unclassified.much better than I thought they would do and they never gave up and worked hard through out the day.now let's see what they learned and where this car goes.

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by TF110

Carbsmith, you are incorrect with those examples of finishing the race on debut. As much hate as this car/team gets (thats the word that springs to mind), you gotta admit, they kept fighting. They finished with the #22. They set a 3:35 lap time, (barely) faster than lmp2. Sure Kolles had more laps and Rebellion was actually classified, but a small victory is still a victory! It can only go up from here.

They finished but were not qualified, they lost more than 90 laps for the winner... meaning 3.75 laps per hour of race average... meaning almost 3 laps per stint! (worst than most that finished).. meaning they raced less >5 yours at the front pace

How on the heck! is that possible for a LMP1-H, a top class car !?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by hcl123

They finished but were not qualified, they lost more than 90 laps for the winner... meaning 3.75 laps per hour of race average... meaning almost 3 laps per stint! (worst than most that finished).. meaning they raced less >5 yours at the front pace

How on the heck! is that possible for a LMP1-H, a top class car !?

Who cares? The ByKolles car was excluded for being underweight. With the car being "90% new" they must have found a way to make it lighter. Is that, in any way, shape or form relevant?

nope.

So. For Nissan to only have done a small average, it doesn't matter.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by hcl123

How on the heck! is that possible for a LMP1-H, a top class car !?

Maybe you didn't get the memo, no hybrid, wrong tyres, car that hasn't raced before....

For what was a 500hp car running in an otherwise compromised state, not shabby for my money

[Akrapovic]

The lack of hybrid and overweight car is all fine and well for a reason on why it was slow, but I fail to see who's fault that is but their own. If Porsche had been at LMP2 speed in year 1 then we'd be sitting questioning what was going on. And if they'd said that they didn't have a working hybrid and the car was too heavy, and therefore they'd accomplished their mission by being too far behind to be classified, we'd all be questioning their commitment to the sport. I don't see why credit should be given for producing a bad car. Aston Martin wasn't showered in glory for the AMR-One.

I feel that since everyone is entering the same class, they should be judged by the same standard. Sorry if that isn't as all inclusive as we'd like the sports car fans to be, but neither is Nissans comments on the other teams. Sorry!

[aneesh99]

Then again, Porsche were drawing on decades of engineering knowledge with a mid engined prototype, a benefit Nissan didn't have.

I'm no apologist for Nissan, I couldn't help but maniacally laugh at their misfortune after what Darren Cox had been saying they would and wouldn't do. I feel bad for the engineers, mechanics and drivers that seem to be at the mercy of a rather PR driven programme but to write off their effort so early in development is... premature?

[GTfour]

I've followed this thread for the last few weeks now, not or hardly commenting. I've been around this forum for some years and I have to say, it's the first time since the Deltawing that I've seen so many childisch, intensely negative and complacent comments about a newly entered racing team, entering a brand new and highly different machine then anyone has ever done before.

In my honest oppinion, I think that them naysayers should realise that Nissan is doing us fans a big favour bringing something so innovative and daring in to the frey.
So it's not up to speed yet. And? It's a factory effort. A big factory effort at that. O.k., it's not as big as the current LMP1 competition(yet) but still big enough to be able to persevere and make this car competetive. This is nothing like the failed Aston LMP1, which was way underfunded.

Lastly, I'd like to especially adress the more fanatic 'el negativo's' on this thread: in the years I've enjoyed all the great discussing of our so beloved sportscars, I've never whitnessed admins having to shut down a thread because of the many annoying, bickering and nagging comments. I was stunned to see this but could very well imagine the admins reasons to do so.
So for the sake of keeping this forum the best sportscar forum on the planet: STOP IT. If you have no faith in this project or you believe it's no serious effort, good for you but then please leave this thread. It's very boring to read all them socalled well informed downplaying comments.

I've seen the Nissan's accelarate out of Mulsanne corner, building up speed and flying by my nose at very high speed. I've seen them battling with the top LMP2's for many laps too. It's a racecar and they look great.

[Trebor123]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

2. "It has no pace" Well. They are running less power than an LMP2 car, with more weight... what do you expect? 3:10's?

Yet another statement, that is currently unsupported by any 'on the record' evidence- unless you can provide a source (or sources) for your various assertions.

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

Well we were told the Nissan was overweight and it's been mentioned that the engine was turned down to ~470bhp

Ditto!

The truth may be out there but appears to bear little correlation to the number of previous posts on this forum?