Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

So then are we kind of confirming Honda and Nissan lmp1´s for 2015? Cause that would be awesome. And if ferrari would join on 2016 and jag and mclaren in GTE that would be dream-like!!!!

Ferrari seems unlikely now.

Mclaren already stated their interest of doing the WEC

[Christian Mogami]

Also with Honda only supplying Mclaren in 15 and 16,WEC P1 would be a great place to test and develop the ERS and Turbo designs.

With the new F1 Power-Units,the secret to speed is the Turbo design and ERS and not the ICE.

[Christian Mogami]

My two cents on why they would race WEC P1.

1)To test/develop F1 Power-Unit.......With only supplying McLaren for 2015,16,their going to need to find a way to get test miles.90% of testing in F1 only happens during racing weekend.

2)Driver feeder system.....A place to put McLaren and Honda junior drivers.


3)They will use the Wirth ARX-04

4)Team run by McLaren

[deggis]

This "testing because you can't in F1" is a bit naive. Comes up with every F1 manufacturer rumor (Renault, Ferrari etc.) but never happens. And there's probably a good reason why, it isn't very useful because of very different requirements of the engines and costs quite a lot compared to some modified single-seater test mule possibly even built by McLaren. F1 test ban only covers recent F1 cars and until 2015 Honda does not even fall under that rule.

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by deggis

This "testing because you can't in F1" is a bit naive. Comes up with every F1 manufacturer rumor (Renault, Ferrari etc.) but never happens. And there's probably a good reason why, it isn't very useful because of very different requirements of the engines and costs quite a lot compared to some modified single-seater test mule possibly even built by McLaren. F1 test ban only covers recent F1 cars and currently Honda does not even fall under that rule.

It's a different world now with the new ERS and Fuel Meter!
If you follow F1 now,you would know this,just look at Renault and Ferrari this year!And now F1 and P1 are very close because it's about getting the most out of the allowed fuel.They relate to each other and the cost of testing in a P1 gives benefit to the brand by racing(win Le Mans and groom future drivers) instead of spending money for a secret test mule.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

instead of spending money for a secret test mule.

But how many test mules can you build* for 150M (or whatever is needed for WEC season) from which a large portion is not go to towards engine development at all? And this specifically modified single-seater will probably charasterically resemble F1 more than LMP1 can (weight difference for starters).

*not built from zero but buying some base car first, Honda has some possibilities carrying their own name too. For example there was a rumor that Renault tested their engine in a 3.5/WSR chassis.

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by deggis

How many test mules can you build* for 150M (or whatever is needed for WEC season) from which a large portion is not go to towards engine development at all? And this specifically modified single-seater will probably charasterically resemble F1 more than LMP1 can (weight difference for starters).

*not built from zero but buying some base car first, Honda has some possibilities carrying their own name too. For example there was a rumor that Renault tested their engine in a 3.5/WSR chassis.

That $ amount is wrong for a WEC season.And it's not the car that needs testing but the Power-Unit(who cares about the weight) and you can not make a F1 like testing mule(you can dream) in todays World with twitter,forums!You would be caught and be in more trouble than Mercedes was last year with that tire test!!!! What a $100 million dollar fine and band from racing for a year?!?!?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

That $ amount is wrong for a WEC season.

Tell me correct figure then. Preferably with a source.

And it's not the car that needs testing but the Power-Unit(who cares about the weight) and you can not make a F1 like testing mule(you can dream) in todays World with twitter,forums!You would be caught and be in more trouble than Mercedes was last year with that tire test!!!! What a $100 million dollar fine and band from racing for a year?!?!?

The test ban basically bans the use of two year old actual F1 cars, anything else is ok. Some modified Formula Nippon or something similar is definitely not "a car that conforms substantially with the current Formula One Technical Regulations in addition to those from the previous or subsequent year" (direct quote from the regs).

[Christian Mogami]

[QUOTE=deggis;3401633]Tell me correct figure then. Preferably with a source.

Why do I have to do your homework?

That figure is what Honda is spending on F1 and that money is also supporting Mclaren and paying half of the drivers wages.

[Simmi]

In terms of a feeder team it seems McLaren/Honda already have that in ART.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

Why do I have to do your homework?

That figure is what Honda is spending on F1 and that money is also supporting Mclaren and paying half of the drivers wages.

If you don't quote a source for something you maintain is definitive, then you're bound to be called on it. So either provide it or accept the comment.

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

If you don't quote a source for something you maintain is definitive, then you're bound to be called on it. So either provide it or accept the comment.

Because some people on here work in the industry so they don't read it online,they live it and only give you hints or in up fired and in court!

[Aysedasi]

Then you'll just have to put up with the same question matey - and with good humour - when you make unsupported but 'definitive' statements without giving any sources. No-one is saying you're not right, of course......

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

Because some people on here work in the industry so they don't read it online,they live it and only give you hints or in up fired and in court!

By doing that you appear as a person only seeking for fame because of "insider knowledge" - whether or not what you claim is true. No proof, no trust. Sorry, it's a harsh world.

If we blindly trusted everything everybody said there would be no boundaries. I could claim to know for fact that Lada is entering LMP1 next year - yet you couldn't question that because I can always use the excuse of not being able to reveal the sources.

Better to give no hints at all to prevent any arguments. Except if you're well known journalist or something, then your word can be a little more thrustworthy

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Better to give no hints at all to prevent any arguments. Except if you're well known journalist or something, then your word can be a little more thrustworthy

Hints are always welcome, as they can give a good discussion. However, you must accept that your hints will be questioned.
Only very few in the sports car world can leave a hint in here without being questioned, MulsanneMike being one of them because of his know close tie ins with the business.
If we knew how your connection are Christian Mogami, your hints would be more trustworthy to us

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by Chiana

By doing that you appear as a person only seeking for fame because of "insider knowledge" - whether or not what you claim is true. No proof, no trust. Sorry, it's a harsh world.

If we blindly trusted everything everybody said there would be no boundaries. I could claim to know for fact that Lada is entering LMP1 next year - yet you couldn't question that because I can always use the excuse of not being able to reveal the sources.

Better to give no hints at all to prevent any arguments. Except if you're well known journalist or something, then your word can be a little more thrustworthy

I have no problems,keep it funny all the time but will call you out if you can't handle it.

A lot of people on here are just brave couch racers so they would rather go Benny Hill on other bloggers than have a good two way debate.


Go back a read my post,I wrote....my two cents......english meaning...thinking out loud.

And all I told him to do is do his homework when he stated it would cost $150 million to run a P1 team.That is around want Honda is paying for F1 and that could include the P1 junior team?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

And all I told him to do is do his homework when he stated it would cost $150 million to run a P1 team.That is around want Honda is paying for F1 and that could include the P1 junior team?

Actually I have no idea why did I throw that random number because it is way more than few figures mentioned in press long time ago, but it's besides the point: 50M or more, that's still more than it is required to build a test mule.

[FIRE]

Still not convinced Honda will join LMP1 with a full factory team.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://sportscar365.com/gt/audi-conf...n-development/
Next-gen Audi R8 in development.

Also, heard a word on the WEC broadcast that Honda may have "more than Formla one" going on at their main workshop. Something about LMP1.

So Audi is already developing a car to GT+ regs? I wonder how much they can actually do?

I also heard that comment about Honda. The suggestion (from Sam Collins?) was that more than engine development was going on. A bit cryptic.

[Simmi]

Nissan's imminent entry can not hurt the chances of us seeing Honda out there. I just hope the stars align and the fans get what they want.

4+ manufacturers in P1 and this level of tech cannot be ignored.

[TF110]

There are sources (rumors) of Honda giving McLaren $150 million for I think per season from next year. Read it on Autosport forums, so dont have the link. Something about theyre willing to cover the funding deficiencies McLaren currently face. Not sure that signals anything toward lmp1, but the rlm crew were speculating on it. I guess thats all we can treat anything said without definitive proof. Its fun to speculate, right?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Nissan's imminent entry can not hurt the chances of us seeing Honda out there. I just hope the stars align and the fans get what they want.

4+ manufacturers in P1 and this level of tech cannot be ignored.

I'm just fearing... Can we have too many manufactures?
We risk someone finishing poorly, and by doing that scaring the board members of that marque away from Le Mans for a significant time.
Theres only room for 3 cars at the LMP1 podium, so with more than 3 manufactures, 1 manufacture will stand in the shadow - gaining nothing from their investment.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by CTD

I'm just fearing... Can we have too many manufactures?
We risk someone finishing poorly, and by doing that scaring the board members of that marque away from Le Mans for a significant time.
Theres only room for 3 cars at the LMP1 podium, so with more than 3 manufactures, 1 manufacture will stand in the shadow - gaining nothing from their investment.

Of course we can have too many manufacturers, because someone always has to lose and while for a couple of years there's a halo effect to be had outside of that you then have to ask how you're activating your marketing message if it isn't by crossing the line in the first place.

It's not impossible to do - you just need to find you're right messaging (e.g. Mazda shouldn't need to worry about their TUSC P2 performance because they can shout about doing something different), but it is hard work.

Are we possibly building towards an armageddon? Of course we are, that's a state of nature. In this light the ruddy health of LMP2 and the fact the that ACO are supporting Rebellion in LMP1 is something to applaud.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by CTD

I'm just fearing... Can we have too many manufactures?
We risk someone finishing poorly, and by doing that scaring the board members of that marque away from Le Mans for a significant time.
Theres only room for 3 cars at the LMP1 podium, so with more than 3 manufactures, 1 manufacture will stand in the shadow - gaining nothing from their investment.

It's all cyclical though. What you say is the complete truth. It cannot last to have so many manufacturers.

But if you lose some hopefully we still end up with a situation like we've had in the last few years. I wasn't old enough to fully appreciate it in the late 90's but I want to spectate through a few years like that.

But it's certainly not a problem to worry about for the moment.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by isynge

Of course we can have too many manufacturers, because someone always has to lose and while for a couple of years there's a halo effect to be had outside of that you then have to ask how you're activating your marketing message if it isn't by crossing the line in the first place.

It's not impossible to do - you just need to find you're right messaging (e.g. Mazda shouldn't need to worry about their TUSC P2 performance because they can shout about doing something different), but it is hard work.

Are we possibly building towards an armageddon? Of course we are, that's a state of nature. In this light the ruddy health of LMP2 and the fact the that ACO are supporting Rebellion in LMP1 is something to applaud.

Originally Posted by Simmi

It's all cyclical though. What you say is the complete truth. It cannot last to have so many manufacturers.

But if you lose some hopefully we still end up with a situation like we've had in the last few years. I wasn't old enough to fully appreciate it in the late 90's but I want to spectate through a few years like that.

But it's certainly not a problem to worry about for the moment.

I agree with both of you.
What I hope to see, is what I think you are saying Ian, ACO switching to a conservatory way of talking to the manufactures, ensuring that they stay for the long term, for developing and proving their road car technology, while competing to win the most legendary race.
Something in the lines of the original Le Mans spirit of 1923 .
So let's stop chasing all the manufactures we can get, and instead look to the further into the future, and build the series from the inside to make the Manufactures seek it, instead of ACO seeking them.