RallycrossRX 2015

[chunder]

To be honest, after watchign the first two rounds, this does not whet my appetite.

I have started switching chennels while watching which says to me this is not at all holding my interest.

And I was starting to do it last year too. Mixture of commentator, manufactured racing, poor tracks, banger driving and jelly mould cars.

Sorry, just falling away from me this WRX garbage

[paul1982]

You don't have to look at it Chunder.....

[paul1982]

Except that we have 4 instead of 3 heats and semi final/final instead of C-B-A final and some old and new tracks (yes i love the old ones also instead of the new ones) i don't see a difference with rallycross in the past.... and i follow it for 25 years now....
Stil 5 in a row and 4 laps and 6 in the finals with 6 laps.... (and also still big entrees with s1600 and TC as support races.). tell me the difference (the time of schanche and alamaki what the most call the glory days have some examples of banger racing too!) And i must say i was pretty impressed by Hockenheim. (Was there live)
I think 2013 was the best moment to step in from img. I was sceptic to but i think that the entries were a lot smaller if the don't promote the sport.So gif it a chance and be happy with the publicity.and if you don't like it... don't watch it.

And what the future will bring... time will tell.

[chasing cars]

Only saw Hockenheim on TV but have to agree not a bad effort as far as the circuit was concerned, id envisaged lots of jumps etc, as it was it was fairly traditional in its layout.
I would be interested to hear what the regular DTM visitor thought of it, did they feel it was just a sideshow or were they fully understanding of it? I can understand why IMG would want to take it to a new audience and they could have done much worst than the DTM but I hope this is not a sign of things to come, rallycross in my opinion should remain separate to circuit racing, drifting etc.

As far as the tv commentary was concerned why is it whoever the co-commentator is he is always so much better than Coley who Im guessing must be on a bonus for everytime he says RX!

[chunder]

Sorry but for me that track looked like something a kid had made on Rfactor, the gravel was cutting up, the corners were dull.

It is pretty much GRC, and that is not for me sorry.

Motocross beckons.

[rallycrossnl]

'A visit by the smudgy kids' subtitle: 'Don't play with the smudgy kids' (after a song by F J Degenhardt)
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/m...r-9507666.html
Report about the RX. Not much about how spectators did see it tho.

[Hickey]

I largely agree with Paul's optimism and also with the comparison against the good old days. I was lucky enough to see Group B stuff too (though I was quite young) and of course it was a very special era. They appeared to be unruly beasts and maybe that factor hasn't been replicated (many drivers saying that a modern supercar is easy to drive). But reliability is better now, and that's a positive. What happened to Pat's RS200 and Ole Arnesson's Audi last year is something that I remember very clearly from the Group B days.

Driving standards are much the same too, Rob Gibson probably did more banger racing than the WRX field put together. Grids are fantastic and the depth of unbelievably high quality cars and teams is impressive now. Most tracks are really good, some not so. I have seen clips of old tracks on YouTube and some aren't all that much cop either (old Belgium track springs to mind). I love Loheac but I wish that they actually put proper dirt on the track instead of dust on top of tarmac.

There are a lot of things I'd like to see improved (mostly revolving around providing a better platform for the support series to thrive and I am doubtful as to whether IMG will actually invest in that in the future). But the event at Lydden last year was the best UK event that I can recall (maybe the Lydden 1991 ERC round), so I am optimistic....

And the entry for Mettet is incredible. I've heard bad things about the track there, but will reserve judgement til I've been there. As much as everyone goes on about missing Duivelsberg, it was a pretty hard track to overtake and led to some processional races.

Each to their own though.

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by rallycrossnl

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/m...r-9507666.html

Nice to read!

Did you also see the Ekström acceleration test? With a time of 2.8 seconds (in both 1st and 2nd gear launches) he made it to 2nd best, only a Porsche 918 can do better with a 2.6 seconds to 100km/h. But at least it is 1.1 second quicker than the VW Polo WRC (which is still blistering fast for a 1.6 on a 33mm restrictor).

I do like AMuS as it always combines road tests with data and some technical stuff which I love to read.


Also learned to see that they use VAG tuner Lehmann (which also did the Gb Audi's back than and modern WRC's), so at least there are more tuners in the game than before. And it also shows that despite both driving an A1 the car is much different than that of Larson, which uses an engine similar to that of the older Skoda's. These are based around the Golf 3 2.0 16v engine with diesel block afaik, but have to take a look what EKS is using (is hard with those tents nowadays), but I reckon TFSI is out of the question due to the rules, so maybe and 20vt engine like the Octavia WRC?

[rallycrossnl]

Yeah nice read, and video too. He did complain about no grip and thought he had not the optimal settings. So he wants a second chance 'cos it can do it faster. 0-62mph in 41 meters at 1.1G, in 3th gear, fastest stickshift car in their tests.

While IMG does realize that selling a stand alone event with only the supercars wouldn't sell to a large ticket buying public, events like Hockenheim show that they don't 'need' other classes when they do it like this, their event in another event. In Hockenheim, they didn't worry about selling tickets, a crowd would be there anyway. Less then last years 1th DTM race there though, and for sure less then half of last years DTM final at Hockenheim (a reported 155.000 over the weekend).

[1975DCS]

Yeah acceleration tests are awesome! Saw them for Gollop's 306, Ligier's ZX, Carnegie's Focus, the ex Gollop 6R4 and Liam's DS3. Also saw Pat Doran's Fiesta on Ford Fair. I think the 306 was fastest officially timed at 2,34 seconds to 60 and about 5 something to 100 mph... Awesome!

[tbtstt]

David Binks will drive for Albatec at Lydden:

http://emailmarketing.createsend.co....40EF23F30FEDED

[rx-guru]

About acceleration tests:
The one AMS did with the Ekström S1 was pretty poor, seen how many teams claim they could do 0 to 60 miles/h (96kms) or even 0 to 100kms in under 2 seconds.
Also poor coz I have a test in the Swedish mag 'Teknikens Värld' of October 1984 when they tested Schanche's Xtrac No 1 doing 0 to 100kms in 2.5 seconds.
However, below there is a test on video clip with Anton Marklund and his 2014 VW Polo Mk5 doing 0 to 100kms in just under 2 seconds, in a tunnel system near his home. For me the first proof of what has just been claimed so far.

https://www.facebook.com/MarklundRX/...type=1&theater

[tbtstt]

I haven't seen the Eurosport or Quest highlight shows, so I'm not sure if it was included, but there was an interview with Liam Doran and Petter Solberg during the livestream.

In that interview Liam made mention of taking ideas from the Solberg DS3, in particular from the suspension. It sounded like there was actually some cooperation between PSRX and LDM; I wonder if this was just for the cameras or if the two teams really are talking to each other?

Liam certainly looked to be on the pace in Germany, if they can sort the reliability of that car he could be competitive.

[andyterry16]

I watched the Group B and that era will always take some beating. The only thing wrong with the Hockenheim track was the exit to the Joker, which appeared to be on the dangerous side. I thought the track itself as pretty good - how many RX tracks can drivers overtake and then get overtaken back in a long corner on 4 wheel drift?
As to comments about banger racing how many panels were replaced after the first corner at Brands? I also seem to remember that Arthur Debenham commentated that Michael Shield hadn't replaced panels on his 6r4 so that he could 'mix it with the Europeans'.

Also regarding tracks I have seen Youtube footage of the Finish round in the late 80's having tape round some trees to mark out the course! As long as spectators can see the action clearly anywhere has to be better than that.

[rallycrossnl]

Yeah Petter still has the most suspension travel in his setup of them all. But I think there are a few with less rigid suspension setups then last year, although it's to early to say after just 2 races. He seems to be onto something. For sure with the jumps he flies stadier, more horizontal then the rest, lands more precise and looks faster out of the landing. His car seems to curl around corners, more then others.

[USRallycross]

In the interview I saw I thought Liam say he has taken some learning about the engine from Petter. He also seemed happier in the interview and how being a father puts things into perspective.

For a temp track I thought Hockenheim was pretty good. I would be interested in the crowd numbers and whether a bigger audience was reached. Always lots of things to improve - running on painted parts of the track when wet for instance.

According to many on here you can never improve on the 1980's. You raise a good point re first corner at Brands, first corner at Estering, joke of a first corner at Pembrey but rose tinted glasses make the past look excellent. Of course they also forget that for most of those years unless you were there you never saw rallycross - no end of season reviews and certainly no live coverage.

VERY happy to see David Binks back in a car for Lydden. Has taken a while to find a ride and the challenge like anyone he desperately needs seat time but all rides have lots of competition for them and hopefully this will be one of many for David this year.


Mark

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by rallycrossnl

Yeah Petter still has the most suspension travel in his setup of them all. But I think there are a few with less rigid suspension setups then last year, although it's to early to say after just 2 races. He seems to be onto something. For sure with the jumps he flies stadier, more horizontal then the rest, lands more precise and looks faster out of the landing. His car seems to curl around corners, more then others.

I'm quite certain that Petter is still listening a lot to Martin Schanche when it comes to suspension things and settings for Rallycross...

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by andyterry16

Also regarding tracks I have seen Youtube footage of the Finish round in the late 80's having tape round some trees to mark out the course! As long as spectators can see the action clearly anywhere has to be better than that.

Have been to all Finnish ERC rounds of the late 1980s and don't remember trees with tape... What venue are you talking about?

[chunder]

Interesting.

I have all the reviews of British and European rallycross from 1985 until about 1993!

But never mind, moving on.

Schanche's cars were never softly sprung really to my mind, not as obviously so as Petter's is. It is WRC technology actually, all the WRC cars went Reiger years ago and the tech grew from there, massive travel, hugely understeering cars and Patter was a driving force with that at Subaru, probably why he didnt win much after his title years!

But, the track looked OK, just a shame for the fans, miles away, like Mettet and a few other places. HAd friends who went to Belgium last year and would never go again, mind you they were lucky enough to go to Duivelsberg! Damn shame I never got there

[chunder]

I think Ed, the poster was talking about Ahvenisto, the part where they come back down the hill where Ekstrom rolled the purple car a bit later on when they cut onto gravel, the track there was often marked with tape and barrels, similar to the hairpin area too.

Pretty dangerous really, and it always cut up really bad the gravel there

[rx-guru]

But there was not a single tree at Ahvenisto as long as I've been there...

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by chunder

Schanche's cars were never softly sprung really to my mind, ...

His cars were usually much softer than others, especially in the rear.

[rallycrossnl]

Have there been interviews or quotes by the likes of Martin Schanche, Matty Alamäki, Seppo Niittymäki etc about todays RX?

Yeah the B-era. Gone.

Crowd in 2014 was 12.000 less then in 2013. 75.000 over the whole 4 days.
According to http://www.mittelbayerische.de/sport...rt1228758.html they had the same number for the 2015 DTM race although the race format of the DTM is changed because of declining numbers. Also the tv-viewers were less then last year the broadcaster reported.
Numbers if interested , in german http://www.motorsport-total.com/dtm/...-15050501.html

[paul1982]

Originally Posted by chunder

Interesting.

I have all the reviews of British and European rallycross from 1985 until about 1993!

But never mind, moving on.

Schanche's cars were never softly sprung really to my mind, not as obviously so as Petter's is. It is WRC technology actually, all the WRC cars went Reiger years ago and the tech grew from there, massive travel, hugely understeering cars and Patter was a driving force with that at Subaru, probably why he didnt win much after his title years!

But, the track looked OK, just a shame for the fans, miles away, like Mettet and a few other places. HAd friends who went to Belgium last year and would never go again, mind you they were lucky enough to go to Duivelsberg! Damn shame I never got there

Must say i tought it will look like milws away.but to be honest it was a great view in Hockenheim and not so far view as you think. Mettet on the seats is also not so far away. That you like the duivelsberg moremore i will agree for 100%!
But in Hell you are far from the track as well.... proper RX track.... so you can discus about it. BBut also give it a chance! What i say. I was very sceptical about Hockenheim. And inwas there and it surprised me very much!!

[rallycrossnl]

Can't find said video of the tree overgrown track yet.
Found this tho, a less then permanent rxtrack to put it mildly. 1983 EM 22.05.83 Ahveniston Moottorirata Hämeenlinna FIN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIxGF6g_i7k
Good for B-boys and peeps who love mega-offs. Interview about the magic yellow porsche... track-safety? can you eat that?