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29 Jun 2021, 08:56 (Ref:4058796) | #4501 | ||
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Smoke and mirrors for me.....
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280 days...... |
29 Jun 2021, 09:19 (Ref:4058799) | #4502 | |
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29 Jun 2021, 10:28 (Ref:4058808) | #4503 | ||
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Quote:
What's not allowed in most modern race cars are the underbody tunnel designs which increase ground effect but even without those and the floors being tightly regulated every winged race car uses ground effect. Even current F1 and up to 60% or more of its total downforce. LMH underfoor rules are probably quite similar to what it has been in LMP1 era, so no tunnels. Last edited by deggis; 29 Jun 2021 at 10:40. |
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29 Jun 2021, 10:35 (Ref:4058809) | #4504 | ||
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I think when most people say "ground effect" they really mean some kind of tunnels, sealed or not.
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29 Jun 2021, 20:43 (Ref:4058920) | #4505 | ||
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Quote:
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29 Jun 2021, 23:39 (Ref:4058946) | #4506 | |||
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Quote:
Valkyrie AMR Pro also features an aggressive aerodynamic package which adds an additional 266mm in length, and thanks to mastery of underbody and overwing airflow, generates extraordinary levels of downforce. https://media.astonmartin.com/aston-martin-valkyrie-amr-pro-the-ultimate-no-rules-hypercar/ Very ambiguous, but I read that as "not something that would be extraordinary for a modern race car". Could just mean a big diffuser. Quote:
Last edited by deggis; 29 Jun 2021 at 23:51. |
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29 Jun 2021, 23:55 (Ref:4058949) | #4507 | |||
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Quote:
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30 Jun 2021, 09:24 (Ref:4058989) | #4508 | ||
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30 Jun 2021, 12:04 (Ref:4059015) | #4509 | ||
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ACO's Hypercar was always supposed to feature rules directly limiting aero performance, instead of areas and methods of extracting it. So whatever extreme aero features the road Valkyrie was designed with would have to tamed to fit within the performance requirement. This was known when the LMH project was well alive, so I doubt it has anything to do with its cancellation.
At the time I expected AMR to do away with the rear wing and rely mostly on underbody aero to get the same figures others will be getting through more conventional means. The Peugeot concept rendering features a somewhat similar idea with a low profile wing tucked away behind the wheel arches kind of like the lower portion of the 905 wing. |
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30 Jun 2021, 12:26 (Ref:4059020) | #4510 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 305
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It can do a 3:20.00 - really?? Well why not prove it, in a race? Ah, they can't; well put up and shut up!!
AM should be in Sportscars, and not F1....but their owner decided otherwise. |
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30 Jun 2021, 14:19 (Ref:4059028) | #4511 | ||
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They can't possibly prove it in the race just like Porsche can't race their 919 Evo, which would probably be close to 3 minutes dead.
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30 Jun 2021, 14:28 (Ref:4059030) | #4512 | |
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AMR statement about 3.20 at LM = my VW golf filled with 10 NOS tanks can do 0-100km/h in 1.5s, shame I can't homologate it for racing.
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30 Jun 2021, 15:07 (Ref:4059038) | #4513 | |||
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Quote:
Porsche did try and prove what they could do though with the runs at Spa and Nurburgring. |
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30 Jun 2021, 18:13 (Ref:4059067) | #4514 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Quote:
The Valkyrie project has a long history of dubious and ridiculous claims about the car's performance with nothing to back it up other than their BS publicity statements. |
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30 Jun 2021, 19:34 (Ref:4059080) | #4515 | ||
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Spot on.
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30 Jun 2021, 21:12 (Ref:4059089) | #4516 | |||
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Quote:
Compared to LMP1, this Valkyrie is a larger car with a larger heavier engine, but with a lot of power. And that's how Hypercars were supposed to be. After AMR pulling out, the power was dropped dramatically, but not the weight/size, so that LMH could be on the similar level to LMDh. It always makes me laugh how people seem to think that LMPs have the best aero for any car of that size. Luckily Porsche proved that it's not even remotely true. With very minimal changes, which were though outside LMP1 regulations, 919 Evo demolished the 919 record at Spa. Imagine what Porsche could achieve with a ground-up redesign of the chassis with no thought of LMP1 regulations? LMP1/2 car is what happens when you develop a sportscar for decades, while the rule makers amend the rules to stifle your development here and there, so you then have develop a less efficient compromise to exploit a loophole here, a loophole there etc. etc. etc. And then the rulebook gets thicker and cars start to look more and more odd with every passing year, and more similar to each other, because now the rule book defines more and more of their design. Just like in Formula1. And then the same engineers can throw the rulebook away and develop a far more efficient car for billionaires to play with. This is why I think rules should be rewritten from scratch every decade or so. Last edited by Pandamasque; 30 Jun 2021 at 21:21. |
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30 Jun 2021, 21:40 (Ref:4059095) | #4517 | ||
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The power/weight changed from the initial 520kw/1040kg to 585kw/1100kg during Aston and then back to 500kw/1030kg. (minimum weights without BoP) Besides these, the rules haven't changed much. There was some speculation or might have been directly from Vasselon that they're now actually running at 520 kw. |
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30 Jun 2021, 22:17 (Ref:4059098) | #4518 | ||||
Racer
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Quote:
Quote:
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30 Jun 2021, 23:03 (Ref:4059099) | #4519 | ||
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Quote:
The only other publicized power-weight combo is 520kw/980kg but its only in the very first ACO presentation slides from June 2018 and by the time the first rulebook was finalized late 2018 and published the weight had been bumped to 1040 kg. Even if Aston was already secretly in discussions at this point still this version had none of the production-based-car provisions that appeared later. Last edited by deggis; 30 Jun 2021 at 23:12. |
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30 Jun 2021, 23:54 (Ref:4059101) | #4520 | |||
Racer
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Quote:
This quote is from March 2019: http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...on-martin.html Quote:
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30 Jun 2021, 23:59 (Ref:4059103) | #4521 | |
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I think the hypercar name was evidence enough to know that they were convinced by a big name that it was the way to go and it'd be road-car like. Im convinced if Aston Martin doesn't say they will enter with a modified upcoming version of their hypercar then the rules would be quite different.
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1 Jul 2021, 00:31 (Ref:4059104) | #4522 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Based on not being constrained by very prescriptive regulations designed to slow the cars down by carefully and meticulously negating decades of aerodynamic know-how. |
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11 Jul 2021, 14:24 (Ref:4060755) | #4523 | ||
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11 Jul 2021, 15:59 (Ref:4060766) | #4524 | |
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hope they could be back in lmdh also because thinking about, aston martin was in some way the pioneer of modern dpi/lmdh concept...
what actually was lola-aston? an lmp1 spec carbon tub made by a third party supplier + a road derivated engine + a modified bodywork... that's basically dpi formula. |
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11 Jul 2021, 18:40 (Ref:4060769) | #4525 | ||
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Okay, now I get it... that post (image) was playing to the hype regarding today's England vs Italy football game. Moving on.
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