March 722 - 732 - 742 - 752

[MarcoEOC]

I have many pieces of the car and i can rebuild wath i have not. Can you tell me where i can buy the bodywork of a 742 or a 752?

Originally Posted by driftwood

Marco
you will be crazy you rebuild this car as a 752 762 the ONLY parts that are the same will be the uprights front and rear!!
If you have a ferrari 308 gtb would you fit lambo engine and gearbox and expect the car to still be a ferrari?
If you have a horse paint it black white stripes will it be a Zebra?
NO!
Dont mess with the 742 rebuild it as the Flammini car - I have some moulds for bodywork for 742
the chassis for 752 is TOTALLY different to 742 car

i can supply new uprights wishbones for this car
it all depends on how much of the car you have- is the car complete with gearbox suspension brakes wheels rear wing and oil tank and frame?
If it is complete it will be good to rebuild
If there are many parts missing then you need make a list and price up the missing parts as it will be easy to get a final cost greater than buying a race ready car with fia papers and you still have the labour to rebuild the car
I have 742 bmw for sale £47500 fresh motor

[driftwood]

i have some 742 moulds i can supply some body parts

why do you want to fit 752 body to a 742 car? the sidepods for 75 76 772 is the monocoque! they are 2 TOTALLY different chassis
the most you can fit is the nose cone and cockpit section!
even the rear wing is different between the cars you will end up with neither a march 742 or 752
If you decide to race the car in historic events you will NOT get FIA papers for the car unless it is with 742 body
what gearbox is with the car FG400 or FT200
what engine do yo plan to fit?
BMW needs fg400 to be correct

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Chris, when did Flammini use his old 742 in 1977?

I agree with the above, much better to restore it Marco as a 742 if you can. The car was one of the few to win a race as a year old car in a real F2 race as I recall. Others OTOH would be the Boxer, the Dougall 782, the Johansson Toleman 280B. Anymore in the mid and later F2 years?

Dan:
Vallelunga 15 May, retired damaged radiator [chassis number given in Autosprint]
Mugello 19 June, retired overheating
Enna 24 July 10th
Misan 7 Aug DNQ [serious engine troubles]

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Marco

I have many photos of this car from 1974 to 1977 in Autosprint.
These show changes to bodywork, so that it is running something like 1975 bodywork in 1975 but it is March 742 tub and suspension.

I agree with Dan; In 1975 Flammini won at Mugello with this year old car and won properly - he qualified second, it was not a matter of survival. This was the car that he made his reputation in and for which he won 'Casquo d'oro' in Italy that year.
This is an important car.

Chris

[allenbrown]

If the owner wants a car that looks like a 752, then restoring it to the specification in which it won at Mugello in 1975 would be the best option.

Marco - try to help the owner understand that his car will be much more valuable as an ex-Flammini car rebuilt properly than as a pretend 752.

Allen

[driftwood]

to make the 742 chassis accept some of the 752 body will be easy as it is only nose & cockpit body to fit and then it depends on what wing was fitted for those 1975 season races
However to get FIA papers you will need to demonstrate with photos from 1974 75 the differences of the bodywork and show the 75 race results to get the inspector to accept the 1975 specification you are presenting the car in and why also best to paint the car in the Flammini livery to boost the presentation!

as aside Flammini bought a march 762 to hang on his wall 7 years ago to remind him of his glory!

[MarcoEOC]

Thanks to all because step by step all the doubt begin to find a solution. So, i found a picture of the 1975's presentation of the cars producted by March. I saw that a car called Formula atlantic had not sidepods, a car called Formula 2.0l had narrow sidepods like perhaps the one mounted in the 1974 cars, a car called F2 had large sidepods, an integral part of the chassis like you say. So, what i think is that i can do a 752 starting from the 742 chassis building the sidepods and making them an integral part of the chassis. The fact that it would be better make a real 742 with that chassis it would be true for several reason or not,nevertheless i was asked to do a 752 (i don't know why and is not in my interest know why) and i will do a 752 with the parts i have. Since quite all the doubt about the body now are not so dark as yesterday, thanks also to you, now i must understand if the mechanics i have is of a 742 or a 752 and what was mounted on a 752. For example i have the upper arms with uniballs but i saw in some 752 that they had not the uniballs but in other photos they had it. You know why?

[driftwood]

the 752 car NEVER had sid epods what you see as sidepods IS the monocoque! this is what we call the WIDE chassis used 752 762 772 761 F1 car
the atlantic cars where using the same chassis as 732 742 car the sidepods bolted to the chassis where mad eof fibreglass and had foam inside for crash protection
Before you build the car ask the owner WHY he wants 752 car or does he want the 742 restored as the 75 spec Flammini car
the suspension for these cars is all very similar to look at
uprights front rear brakes all the same
wishbones do have small changes in angles for wheel base or track ( width of car) castor camber
the early march cars front wishbones where made in round tube later cars had square tube lower wishbones certainly 772 782 has- i have not seen 752 762 for many years to check

[MarcoEOC]

Doing a 742 restored as the 75 Flammini car wuold be a good solution. What i have to undertand now is how is the flammini car, how he restored the 742 in a 752. Can you explain it to me?

Originally Posted by driftwood

the 752 car NEVER had sid epods what you see as sidepods IS the monocoque! this is what we call the WIDE chassis used 752 762 772 761 F1 car
the atlantic cars where using the same chassis as 732 742 car the sidepods bolted to the chassis where mad eof fibreglass and had foam inside for crash protection
Before you build the car ask the owner WHY he wants 752 car or does he want the 742 restored as the 75 spec Flammini car
the suspension for these cars is all very similar to look at
uprights front rear brakes all the same
wishbones do have small changes in angles for wheel base or track ( width of car) castor camber
the early march cars front wishbones where made in round tube later cars had square tube lower wishbones certainly 772 782 has- i have not seen 752 762 for many years to check

[allenbrown]

Marco

If the owner discovers that you knew this was a valuable ex-Flammini 742 and that you carried on and turned into something that will not get papers to race, he might be quite cross. I think it is in your interest to let the owner know what you have discovered here.

Regards
Allen

[MarcoEOC]

It's true, now what i want to do, or what i would like to do is to make someting as the Flammini car. If I have undertood his car was an upgrade of a 752 from a 742 and so if I succeed in doing it I would be happy. Now I must undertand how was his car, how his engineer do this.

[allenbrown]

I'm sure many of us will be very willing to help. Anyone got any photos of the Flammini car in 1975?

[Chris Townsend]

I have several photos from 1975 Autosprint, and probably some 1974 photos too.
Marco, I will send you an email with them as I can't post them here for copyright reasons. Please can you use the private message facility on the forum to give me your address

Chris

[driftwood]

Oi Townsend how come he can have the photos and i get snubbed!!!

i strongly suspect the 742 car had ONLY the 752 cockpit nose rear wing fitted to dress up an old car to look newer

[MarcoEOC]

If I have understood the problem is that the 752 chassis is the "large" chassis because the sidepods ARE chassis. Forgetting the problem about the omologations for racing purpose, just to understand, if i build the "lateral" chassis like it was in the 752 model i can obtain a 752 chassis? I ask this just to understand, bofore starting to do anyting with the car... Moreover, the upgrade thet you are talking about (742->752) how was made?

[Chris Townsend]

Marco

I have selected three nice colour photos from 1975 for you. I will try and scan these tonight and email to you over the weekend. [Drifty, you too can have these]

Basically the set up on the car is 1974 sidepods, 1975 cockpit and engine cover, 1975 nose [smaller version - the works had two or three sizes] and maybe the rear wing
It looks as though the 1975 cockpit fits the 1974 tub without much difficulty.
Several 742s were adapted this way in 1975 it seems - there is a nice photo from above of another car that I may include as it really shows how well the cockpit fits.

Chris

[MarcoEOC]

Many thanks Chris!!!! So I will do a reasonable think using the chassis I have, I will order the 1975 cockpit, nose and engine cover and i will use the sidepods i have because they are like the 1974 sidepods. Thanks to everibody because now i know what i have to do!!!!

[driftwood]

it is what i said in the begining the car is 742 car with 752 cockpit nose fitted
it would be IMPOSSIBLE to fit some 752 syle sidepod to the 742 car
why waste time money making a nice slim car into a brick!

[allenbrown]

It's a while since we've discussed the two Musetti cars but I've just found something potentially useful.

To recap, Musetti had two Marches in 1975, one that had evolved out of the ex-Stan Matthews March 73B and one that had come into existence as if my magic alongside that ever changing ex-Matthews car. They were described using any imaginable combination of '73B', '74B', '742' and '752'.

So here's the new bit. Autosport 15 Apr 1976 p41 has a 'Men to watch' feature on Musetti and says "He's got two cars, one basically a 732 and the other a 74B, although it's hard to work out which bits are which and how old". You can say that again! It also says "the cars are tended by Bob Aird, a former Royale mechanic".

[Chris Townsend]

The ex Stan Matthews 73B was itself supposedly a kitted 723 used by Matthews in 1972 which then passed through the hands of Chris Oates in early 1974 before finding its way to Musetti.
So, a quick look at the 723 build records should tell us that one... [except that MN 21.9.72 says it sold to Nick Crossley] Nick's still around, he'll remember.
Matthews's 723 was an early season build.

The other car, at least in plate terms, was the one that ended up in NZ with Howard Wood, apparently with the plate 742-U1 or 742-1
Since both those plates are accounted for respectively by the works development/spare car that went to Franklin and Galbraith and by a car in Japan I wonder if this is not a March rebuild of an older car which ends up using an existing number by accident?

In the mid 70s March replated older cars when they modified them at factory:
733-10 is rebuilt in 1976 to 743 spec as 743-U10 for Mike Wrigley. [743-10 already exists as an ex Obermoser car in Germany]
A 743 [probably 25] is rebuilt for Swiss hillclimber Pirroz in 1975 as 743-19U, though 743-19 is Rupert Keegan's car at the same time and is for sale by Hawke, with the chassis number in MN 12 5 77 p. 17.
So, two 742-U1s far from impossible...

Chris

[allenbrown]

So we may not know their origians but at least we know where they went next: one to Howard Wood in 1977 and one to Bill Wood in 1978 (and then to Ray Rowan).

I can't recall - do we know where either of them are today?

Allen

[driftwood]

741 u1 & 2 in same ownership ( yes i can give u foto if u1 today and u2 dismantled later in week if u desire) dont recall U1 going to raymondo but i will ask
nick c is next village will mail him now see if he can recall his march 723

i was in chris knapman silverstone book shop 2 weeks ago and he has some old race car fotos -i looked thru March folder found 1 white? march on back it said V Musetti but it was impossible to tell what car it was could be from race track foto

Chris where do u get U1 in land of lising sun?

[Chris Townsend]

Drifty

You are a bit confused. I said U1 two possible versions: one is the works spare/Franklin car that you and I both know about; the other would be Musetti's if it's not 742-1
742-1 two possible versions: one in Japan; the other, Musetti's depending on whether the plate on the car that went to Howard Wood is U1 or 1

Three cars here, two have the same plate...

[allenbrown]

Drifty - do you know the tub numbers on the two cars that you mention? Can you remind me where they came from?

[driftwood]

will get tub no for U2 U1 has flown the nest acrosst he pond
chris n wonder im confused you now state there could be 3 cars with 1 on a plate !! im off to lie down in a dark room