Global Rallycross Championship 2012

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Matt

Just showed an onboard view during the X Games coverage. The ramp had nothing to do with it. He cut the next corner too close (it seems) and speared the blunt end of one of the barrier segments with the left front. Huge deceleration.

Yep, I'd agree with that, that's a "normal" crash (a bit odd that marcus got it so wrong though - you'd have thought he would be better through the concrete walls than most - maybe he is human ).

So that's 2 Fiestas totalled in 2 days? Obviously well built cars given the pounding they've taken and both drivers are ok(ish). but that's going to get expensive.

[Minicross424]

I have no problem with the format but i think its the set up and layout that needs looking at.
Metal ended ramps, blunt ended concrete slabs sticking out.....
Please look at this guys before we have another black motorsport weekend

[chunder]

Eitehr way, if you are using bodged up tracka dn barriers, this kind of thing is gonna happen.

Not really anything to do with the stupid ramp, but hitting a concrete wall at any speed is never a good idea.

If I were Seb, I would be on a plane home, I really would, Citroen must be having kittens!

[Cujo]

The most worrying thing about the first crash, is the apparent lack of marshals or official reaction. The spectators seem to be the ones shouting fire, some people in the background then run away, rather than run to help. When help does arrive, no one is wearing flame resistant overalls and I can't see any extinguishers.
Meanwhile the driver is having to get himself out with no assistance and clearly injured.

Remind's me more of 70's GP footage than a contemporary Motorsport event, a very troubling incident.

[chunder]

Exactly, this is why if Iw as Seb I would be running away!

These sort of people are used to watching skateboarding, ramps and bikes, not high velocity cars.

Ok thie was only a practice day, but same as on track days, you should at least have some people there who know a thing or two!

[WJM]

Most disturbing thing is that in both accidents the first rescue crew on the scene were OMSE mechanics... Were where the marshals, firemen, doctors etc? And those that were there, how experienced and trained are they in car motorsports??

[chasing cars]

Originally Posted by Cujo

The most worrying thing about the first crash, is the apparent lack of marshals or official reaction. The spectators seem to be the ones shouting fire, some people in the background then run away, rather than run to help. When help does arrive, no one is wearing flame resistant overalls and I can't see any extinguishers.
Meanwhile the driver is having to get himself out with no assistance and clearly injured.

Remind's me more of 70's GP footage than a contemporary Motorsport event, a very troubling incident.

It doesnt sound like things were any better for Gronholms accident. As I said before safety is at best a secondary thought when it comes to the GRC and the X Games

A different view of Toomas' accident, please dont tell me that is a public road and pavement right next to the jump with nothing more than a couple of temporary barriers inbetween.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=811...goryid=7963143

[WJM]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I totally agree with the first paragraph and totally disagree with the second. Global Rallycross should keep the huge jumps, but should work to find a solution to gap crashes. It can be a tabletop jump, better protector, an escape lane or something else.

Alpine sports and motorsports have progressed in safety. This year, a Winter X Games competitor died, same at the bobsleigh event in the 2010 Winter Olympics. It's time action sports take safety seriously.

That the gap jump is now closed doesn't make the jump suddenly safe. It still doesn't have side barriers, proper run-off nor an escape road. It's just a matter of time before the next car gets destroyed. If you want big jumps there will be some danger involved, that's the choice to make.

[FIRE]

Come on guys this is the EXTREME Games...safety who cares.

[I Rosputnik]

What is interesting is that Loeb was the only driver not to take part in the jump practice on the day Toopi had his crash. Furthermore after digging around, I've had a look at Liam Doran's facebook and he pulled out of the practice sessions due to these crashes. It's shame they split off from Rally America, they could of had them bringing marshals and more experts. Then again, if they want to bring the series to Europe then I reckon the FIA might want to make some changes.

If they want a good layout out for the X games then may I suggest this from Dirt 3?

[chunder]

Honestly its a disgrace, I have never seen anything so shambolic in my life

That second angle, you see a guy run into the bottom of the screen, and just run away again!

Now, I am guessing its because its only practice, so maybe there were not many people about to marshal.

But for Lords sake the kid has broken bones that he wouldknt know about and he is climbing out of a wrecked car! If there were proper marshals he wouldnt be allowed to move, he would be cut out or helped out by proper people.

Honestly, this is really rather serious, I am no fan of GRC, but this goes beyond mere like and dislike of a race series.

[I Rosputnik]

I've had a look at the recent video that ESPN put up and while I'm grateful that the mechanics and firemen got to the scene as fast they could, where were the marshals? There should of been at least a handful of trained marshals around just in the case this happens. My biggest worry is with the ramp. When Toomas hit the thing, it moved back. Says something about the stability of it. I had no issues when it was dirt, but just because something takes longer to set up or take way does not mean you have to overlook it.

Now for Marcus's crash, why was the there an exposed lamp post? I can see there is now a table top on the ramps which like I said earlier was a victory for common sense, but now what if we have a group of cars jumping over the ramp, speeding along the straight and turns out there's not enough room at that corner and we have what happens Marcus but with two, three or four cars?

I'm tempted to start another thread to see what the marshals on the forum make of this.

They have had the rally events running smoothly for the past 5 years until now. What went wrong... I just hope this does not screw up the grassroots USRC that Rally America is working on. The next race for them is in July.

[rx4eva]

As far as I am aware this show is not running under any authority eg fia or Msa like in the uk so probably no requirement for marshals, I think of the Grc more like a travelling circus/theatre type operation and not really hardcore motorsport, the racing is fabricated, example watering the Tarmac and no overtaking at parts of the circuit, the point I'm making is the lack of marshals could worryingly be down to the prospect of reduced profits (or I may be wrong just a thought). I was really looking forward to the grc this year but now I dislike it, as the highest profile championship in the world it is misrepresenting 40 plus years of hard work in Europe and it's a shame loebs first Rx event is probably going to leave a bad impression on him and his followers, the promoters had everything the Europeans could dream of with budget and sponsors, drivers and teams and a potentially massive fan base but they have tried to mess with the perfect recipe and in my opinion failed up to now. I would actually really prefer it if it was called the 'American stunt driving championship'

[Minicross424]

Originally Posted by chunder

Honestly its a disgrace, I have never seen anything so shambolic in my life

That second angle, you see a guy run into the bottom of the screen, and just run away again!

Now, I am guessing its because its only practice, so maybe there were not many people about to marshal.

But for Lords sake the kid has broken bones that he wouldknt know about and he is climbing out of a wrecked car! If there were proper marshals he wouldnt be allowed to move, he would be cut out or helped out by proper people.

Honestly, this is really rather serious, I am no fan of GRC, but this goes beyond mere like and dislike of a race series.

Ok I have just watched the espn video and now im in shock.
As mentioned that is a public highway with a path!
If one of those take off wrong that could end up in the road!
Don't get me wrong, in some countrys (the uk) Health and Safety had gone mad but this is outright dangerous.

[rallycrossnl]

Heikkinen possible, yet unclear rear wheel (suspension) trouble? Most likely he did lift on entering the ramp. Nose dives when one does.
Gronholm broken suspension after jump, source below
Loeb broken suspension after jump ,source below
Foust broken suspension after jump, see it bouncing like a balloon...
Tracy broken suspension after jump, source below

http://www.rallyworldnews.com/2012/0...rd-impact.html

[chunder]

I have watched video of both crashes now and i think the impact breaks teh rear suspension on Tomas car, it is all in line before this and as soon as the car hits the ramp, the shock shunts the wheel forward and breaks the suspension

Either way it would have made little difference as it is the take of speed and angle that mattered.

I didnt realise that the stupid Hotwheels stunt nearly went wrong aswell, Fousts mate in the oethr car broke loads of suspension parts on a ramp and did well to get back!

Feel bad for all concerned, this does noone any good, I guess sponsors will love the exposure, but really, am sure those close to the series must be having doubts, when a legend like Marcus gets seriously hurt.

[rallycrossnl]

For Heikkinen I said possible, there are 'reports' that there was trouble before the jump. I can't see it in the 4 different videos on the web, I just listed reports. It's clear the rearwheels collapse forward on impact, you can see that in the slo-mo.
I didn't read anywhere if this was the very first run on the jump or if others had attempts at it before Heikkinen.
Of course take off speed makes all the difference, and the angle the car pivots before landing is a major factor. See 1000's of stunt videos for that. Drivers 'steer' their vehicle by either hitting the breaks mid-air (stopping forward power of the mass of the wheels) or reffing the engine
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...ravis-pastrana

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Minicross424

Ok I have just watched the espn video and now im in shock.
As mentioned that is a public highway with a path!
If one of those take off wrong that could end up in the road!
Don't get me wrong, in some countrys (the uk) Health and Safety had gone mad but this is outright dangerous.

that public road you see is actually going to be part of the track today.

[Minicross424]

Originally Posted by Matt

that public road you see is actually going to be part of the track today.

That fair enough but what if some thing had happened during practice far worse than did?

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Minicross424

That fair enough but what if some thing had happened during practice far worse than did?

Not quite sure how a car would make it that far over? The incident happened during jump practise, didn't it?

Sure most of you have seen in on Facebook and the like, but the video of the "A" final is up now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=vwvCmYT6xJQ

The winner doesn't really surprise me (and I've no doubt it'll surprised none of you either).

Good result for Block though. I said he has looked quick at moments in the GRC, but he never seems to have remained on track long enough to have translated that to a decent result!

To be honest though, Gronholm versus Loeb was the scrap I was looking forward to and, once Gronholm went out, I think most of us would have been more surprised by Loeb losing rather than winning.

[BertMk2]

It's made the Daily Mail....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hing-fire.html

Usual godawful "journalism" but what do you expect?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

It's made the Daily Mail....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hing-fire.html

Usual godawful "journalism" but what do you expect?

More world class journalism by the Daily Mail.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Usual godawful "journalism" but what do you expect?

If the Daily Mail managed anything other than godawful I'd be more surprised!

[I Rosputnik]

Because I heard it all in the Daily Mail...

Loeb dominated no surprise. It was fun to watch, but there is so many things needing to be fixed with the event. For starters the track is way too narrow, there needs to be more grandstands, less reliance on the jump gap, and more dirt!

The funny part is that there was no joker lap. (But I was never a fan of it in the first place.)

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Because I heard it all in the Daily Mail...

Loeb dominated no surprise. It was fun to watch, but there is so many things needing to be fixed with the event. For starters the track is way too narrow, there needs to be more grandstands, less reliance on the jump gap, and more dirt!

The funny part is that there was no joker lap. (But I was never a fan of it in the first place.)

To be honest, it was a bit like watching Usain Bolt run the 100m in the Special Olympics.