GTE Speculation

[MitchZ06]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Back then they were new to the category and restricted to hell and back. I thought we were talking about a straight up fight without any restrictors.

I do remember the C5R and C6.Rs handing Ferrari their asses in GT1, seems our resident pony rider has forgotten that...

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by arakis

Actually even with the torque advantage, the corvette is no match for the 458 (if the corvette wasn't BoP-ed)

That doesn’t seem to be the case here…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wheEOSdDi9w&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMRmLDZXRRI&feature=plcp

This is on the same day, same track, same race driver; looks like the Z06 does quite well against the 458. You can think whatever you want; but you can’t make up your own facts.

[Deleted]

I think he was talking about the performance balanced 458 GTC and C6.R, not production models.

The new GT2 Corvette was a beast with that destroked Katech engine in 2009 before they had to make a switch, and they didn't even have big restrictor breaks back then - so I disagree with arakis. They were even carrying extra ballast in the few first years. However I do think that the GT2 car isn't the same conqueror as the two previous models

[MitchZ06]

Only because the ACO didn't want Corvette to run everyone out of another GT class...

[Deleted]

I've been suggesting on the RLM forum that the lack of GT1 is actually hurting GTE pretty badly, as every car needs to be fitted into one category and therefore more performance balancing is needed (or not needed but you know what I mean) to keep everybody happy and fit everybodys needs. Now you have just one class to put your car into if you wanna enter the biggest sportscar race in the world

We need a class for higher performance models with higher displacement, and one for slightly slower. Not this stupid Pro/Am crap we have now but let professional teams and makes race in the category their car fits the best, like in the past.

I seriously think this is one of the (many) issues why the class has slowly begun to go downhill

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I think he was talking about the performance balanced 458 GTC and C6.R, not production models.

He may have been, so I was being generous in using the pure production models for comparison. The street version of an LS7 is a good engine, but a racing version has a lot more potential/headroom than the Ferrari mill. If Arakis is talking about an uncorked 7 liter C6.R against the 458 I don’t think he realizes what a humiliating defeat that would be for the little pony from Maranello.

[busdegnao]

In my opinion the truth is in the gray zone. The 458 GTC has been able to run at le mans faster than a GT1 2010, but only #51 and the #59 were able to be so competitive; the #71 itself of af corse is slower and some other like the #66 of JMW was slower than a lot of am car. The C6.R is a good car, this year obtained more power and a more efficent rear wing setting by bop (the 2012 pro model) but there was no match against the most performant 458 during le mans week-end.
In my opinion the 458 GTC actually is the best GTE of the roster, but only in hands of some driver/team becomes unbeatable for the other cars.
PS. Is ridiculous compare the C6.R GT1 that used the LS7R with the 458 GTC, too much different cars, different classes of different ages.

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by Chiana

We need a class for higher performance models with higher displacement, and one for slightly slower. Not this stupid Pro/Am crap we have now but let professional teams and makes race in the category their car fits the best, like in the past.

Definitely agree on this point.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by kyoung

If Arakis is talking about an uncorked 7 liter C6.R against the 458 I don’t think he realizes what a humiliating defeat that would be for the little pony from Maranello.

Uncorked C6.R? C6.R without restrictors? That thing would even demolish LMP1 cars in a straight line.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by busdegnao

PS. Is ridiculous compare the C6.R GT1 that used the LS7R with the 458 GTC, too much different cars, different classes of different ages.

No-one is doing that, but comparing how 7-liter GT2 ZR1 would bode against the 458 GTC which I think wouldn't end the way arakis predicted...

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Chiana

No-one is doing that, but comparing how 7-liter GT2 ZR1 would bode against the 458 GTC which I think wouldn't end the way arakis predicted...

We'll have a study case for that one next week when the Viper gets rolled out with an even bigger engine.

[MitchZ06]

Would agree there, hell even the 2009 6.0L DI engine would do the job...

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I've been suggesting on the RLM forum that the lack of GT1 is actually hurting GTE pretty badly, as every car needs to be fitted into one category and therefore more performance balancing is needed (or not needed but you know what I mean) to keep everybody happy and fit everybodys needs. Now you have just one class to put your car into if you wanna enter the biggest sportscar race in the world

We need a class for higher performance models with higher displacement, and one for slightly slower. Not this stupid Pro/Am crap we have now but let professional teams and makes race in the category their car fits the best, like in the past.

I seriously think this is one of the (many) issues why the class has slowly begun to go downhill

True, but I think there is an easier solution. Less restrictive engine rules. More power simply put. Fix torque advantages with a mandatory ECU wich restrict acceleration - "launch control" if you will. A top speed limiter is already in use, but the cars do need a higher top speed, say 300 kph.

[busdegnao]

is all relative, a zr1 GTE with a 7.0L will have more torque than now but because of restrictors the same power but a lower revlimit that will penalize the car in tracks with high top speeds. Think also that a 7.0L will be heavier than a 5.5L so the car will be harder to handle and to set up.

[MitchZ06]

The small block LS7 is actually quite and light engine and forms the basis of the LS5.5R as that engine uses a sleeved LS7 block. Just because it's bigger in displacement doesn't mean it's a HUGE engine that weighs a ton.

[busdegnao]

ligther is not. A free engine formula would solve all these problems, but maybe will create a domino effect where all manufacters will start to spend money and money to updated their engines.

[MitchZ06]

Freeze the BoP after May and restrict development during the season.

And yes the LS7 will be as light as the LS5.5R, check the damn facts man (you seem to post what you think as fact vs actual facts...)

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by busdegnao

is all relative, a zr1 GTE with a 7.0L will have more torque than now but because of restrictors the same power but a lower revlimit that will penalize the car in tracks with high top speeds. Think also that a 7.0L will be heavier than a 5.5L so the car will be harder to handle and to set up.

From the Aquila Racing Cars website…

“Chevrolet's new-generation of all-alloy V8 engines are absolute gems! Although retaining pushrod valve operation from a single central camshaft, the LS-series engines are nonetheless technologically very advanced and refined engines, revving up to 7000 rpm.

Powerful and possessing massive torque, due to their large swept volume, they are also very reliable, as they do not need high levels of race tuning, and, remarkably, they are almost the same (low) weight as the BMW M60 in race trim, which is a testament to their state-of-the-art design.”

The 7L and 5.5L external block dimensions and weight are almost identical, I don't understand why this is so hard for some to grasp.

[MitchZ06]

Corvette even says it themselves on their official website...

"The Corvette C6.Rs' engines are developed, built and maintained by GM. Designated LS5.5R, the naturally aspirated powerplant is based on the Corvette Z06's 7.0-liter LS7 engine (which in turn was developed with the 7.0-liter race engine used in the C6.R GT1 cars), and is built with a production cast-aluminum cylinder block."

[busdegnao]

ok, i agree, don't be so harsh.

[MitchZ06]

A little research goes a long way...

[busdegnao]

i'm not a corvette fan, is predictable that i can't know all these things.

[MitchZ06]

You don't need to be to do a little digging.

[arakis]

6l DI was expelled because it was illegal, as in there is no road corvette with a DI engine....
the 7l Gt1 engine is also iligal, as it's been modified above what the rules allow... etc etc...
like mentioned here the 7l engine would gut much smaller restrictors, yeah there would be a tourque addvantiga, but also a lower Hp, and higher fule consumption etc...etc...
As for Ferrari's little pony engines....
ever head of F50 Gt1.. 4.7L N/A 11000RPM, ~800hp, in a 900kg car...I mean as long as we are pulling out Gt1 cars out of the bag

As for Corvettes on the road, I have nothing but respect for them...
a 4-5x cheaper car giving similar performance as they say in basketball nothing but net

Also on Corvettes, I have nothing but respect, but I do feel they need to stop whining to the ACO and start developing a car that wouldn't need BoP to be competitive

[MitchZ06]

Did it ever race? I don't seem to recall (infact Ferrari pussied out of racing it because of Porsche and Mercedes...).

No Corvette has a 5.5L either so by that regard isn't it illegal too?