Parity Review Has Been Called

[Ares]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Interesting to me that Brown wasn't able to make progress against the Mustangs in front of him, but at this stage everyone had their own issues and some were closer on fuel than others.

Fuel saving? Car problem? Yeah not sure, as he was super fast early.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Yes, 97 and 99 had their problems towards the end.

Yes near the end, not earlier in the day. That 11 car had speed all day.

[kittle]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Interesting to me that Brown wasn't able to make progress against the Mustangs in front of him, but at this stage everyone had their own issues and some were closer on fuel than others.

Will Brown was nearly 3 seconds slower than everyone on the final two laps. Was he fuel saving??

[Compromised]

Judging parity off accumulated lap times is almost as pointless as VCAT - just way to many variables to have any faith in the data.

The fact that Supercars use either method is quite concerning and actually goes along way to explain the series current predicament

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

Yes near the end, not earlier in the day. That 11 car had speed all day.

But still not enough speed to catch the 2 ailing camaros in front of it.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by kittle

Different areas are tried each time to make it even. Why does it matter how many changes are made.

Because Ford fans keep blaming Supercars for it not being solved, when Ford teams tell us "x is the cause" and then when x is resolved to their satisfaction, they blame something else.

DJR's competence against 888 is a serious issue with regards to the design and manufacturing of the Mustang parts, so Tickford had to step in and make new door panels so that the actual parity solution could work as intended.

Steve Amos' untimely passing unfortunately put Herrod's into a position where they had to take over the Ford engine project, and unlike MOStech and KRE, Herrod's have won zero Supercars championships. On top of this Ford made dud choices like the throttle bodies, putting Ford teams further behind.

[GTRMagic]

There are supposedly 13 sets of body parts sitting in a Bathurst shed waiting for fitment… given nearly every Ford seems to have some scratch damage.. they will be useful..

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

There are supposedly 13 sets of body parts sitting in a Bathurst shed waiting for fitment… given nearly every Ford seems to have some scratch damage.. they will be useful..

Let the pre-determined process play out and see if they are appropriate to be used.

Turning up at the most important race of the year and trying to force a change at gunpoint isn't appropriate when you've been given everything you asked for all year.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Because Ford fans keep blaming Supercars for it not being solved, when Ford teams tell us "x is the cause" and then when x is resolved to their satisfaction, they blame something else.

DJR's competence against 888 is a serious issue with regards to the design and manufacturing of the Mustang parts, so Tickford had to step in and make new door panels so that the actual parity solution could work as intended.

Steve Amos' untimely passing unfortunately put Herrod's into a position where they had to take over the Ford engine project, and unlike MOStech and KRE, Herrod's have won zero Supercars championships. On top of this Ford made dud choices like the throttle bodies, putting Ford teams further behind.

You're like a broken record, the larger throttle body was likely selected to help compensate for a smaller engine capacity and it was worth trying........it's easy to be wise after the fact.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

You're like a broken record, the larger throttle body was likely selected to help compensate for a smaller engine capacity and it was worth trying........it's easy to be wise after the fact.

Except that MOStech AND the Ford teams argued against it, and it was chosen purely for cost/inventory reasons.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Except that MOStech AND the Ford teams argued against it, and it was chosen purely for cost/inventory reasons.

Have you got source for that comment?

[HDTVKSS]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Have you got source for that comment?

Do you for yours?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Have you got source for that comment?

Originally Posted by Osborne Reynolds

The MAJOR issue with these cars is the throttle body diameter. The inlet manifold uses a restrictor of 53mm (ish), then a throttle body of Holden 80mm / Ford 87mm diameter. Ford have stuck with 87mm despite Supercars advice to downsize. In fact, both cars would be better with 75mm, and a slight increase in restrictor diameter.

The actual process of obtaining 'parity' has been a little ambiguous, the fault being poor communication between stakeholders, a lack of rigor, and a reluctance to report by Supercars. Additionally, the Ford development team is somewhat inexperienced. Experienced in engine development, yes, but experience with restricted, single throttle body manifolds, no.

I have heard the same from within teams.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

Do you for yours?

I don't need to as I only state my opinion.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I have heard the same from within teams.

OK, they must have thought it was worth a try.

[bluesport]

Ford takes the moral high ground.

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/ford-aus...thurst-result/

[V8 Fireworks]

Ford Motor Company unhappy:

The issue still remains, we're looking to achieve parity. That issue hasn't changed.

- Andrew Birkic, CEO, Ford Australia
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/ford-aus...thurst-result/

ATCC administrators have stuffed up Gen 3 badly. Not only did it fail to attract the likes of Nissan or BMW, it also failed to satisfy key manufacturer Ford.

Did Chevrolet even fund development of their own car or did ATCC administrators -- inexplicably -- pay for it as rumoured?!

[GTRMagic]

888 has been quoted a few times that their development efforts for Gen3 cost them north of $1m in time, resources, parts, design tools etc.

The way those stories were written, it was as if 888 ate that cost, with a view presumably to selling cars out the other side..

There isnt a whole lot of GM branding on the RBART Camaros…
The parts brand AC Delco is there, in a small sized space..

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Ford Motor Company unhappy:

- Andrew Birkic, CEO, Ford Australia
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/ford-aus...thurst-result/

ATCC administrators have stuffed up Gen 3 badly. Not only did it fail to attract the likes of Nissan or BMW, it also failed to satisfy key manufacturer Ford.

Did Chevrolet even fund development of their own car or did ATCC administrators -- inexplicably -- pay for it as rumoured?!

The problem with the category is the technical parity, Nissan got burned badly previously and I doubt that they will ever be back nor will any other manufacturers join, supercars are their own worst enemy.

[tobyobi]

Is it time to give up on the concept of a technical parity formula?

In my (complete outsider) view, it seems that the cars are actually extremely closely matched, possibly even more so than during other times of the formula. However, Gen3 has also removed the ability for a smart engineer to think outside the box, and the adjustability by the driver has also gone. You’re not going to get a huge variance when everyone essentially has one of two toys, and no one can really do anything smart to cause an upset.

Seemingly it would be a better option to use some form of BOP to both bring the slower cars up, as well as essentially stop the same results week in and week out.

But I’m just a punter in the stands.

[Adam43]

Isn’t BoP fairly close to a form of technical parity? What you describe is more success ballast? Or am I missing what you mean?

I don’t think it’s time to give up on it, it’s time to stop listening to the rubbish talked about it. Here’s a perfect example of what I mean.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Isn’t BoP fairly close to a form of technical parity? What you describe is more success ballast? Or am I missing what you mean?

I don’t think it’s time to give up on it, it’s time to stop listening to the rubbish talked about it. Here’s a perfect example of what I mean.

Success ballast, I thought swear words were blocked on this site?

[GTRMagic]

How heavy are all of these current chassis?
Back in the Bill Tuckey days, the weights at scrutineering made their way to the Great Race book.

Suspect there might be some differences between makes, and teams inside the brand tent…

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by tobyobi

Is it time to give up on the concept of a technical parity formula?

I don't think so, it's worked for so long relatively drama free.

The current problem has only arisen because of the DISPARITY between homologation teams. It's fair to assume what's begins in disparity will end up in disparity without outside intervention.

Put simply, DJR where not up to the task, though in all honesty I don't believe any Ford team would have built as good of a car as T8.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Compromised

The current problem has only arisen because of the DISPARITY between homologation teams. It's fair to assume what's begins in disparity will end up in disparity without outside intervention.

Unfortunately this is just where it's at, until Penske's obscene money and rule stretching, nobody in Supercars could get near 888's ability.

Unfortunately I think also a part of it comes from the sad health decline of Steve Amos after an illustrious Supercar engine builder with credentials equal to that of KRE, which Herrod lacked.

Originally Posted by Compromised

Put simply, DJR where not up to the task, though in all honesty I don't believe any Ford team would have built as good of a car as T8.

WAU's resources I think could and would have done a better job.

I don't think anybody could have predicted Dr Story's ill health, and DJR's lack of any management, nor would they have predicted Ludo would go so far off the boil.

I think now that it has happened, Tickford is gutted, Tim Edwards is out the door, and potentially WAU may be the only other place that has the ability and resources to manage the homologation.