Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition - Page 198

hondafan37 · 12 Jun 2014, 00:38 (Ref:3419008)

Red Bull LMP1?
http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/388...-un-catamarano

deggis · 12 Jun 2014, 02:15 (Ref:3419023)

Unless google translation is really bad: a bunch of ifs, maybes and pipe dream speculation.

Hendrix · 12 Jun 2014, 06:10 (Ref:3419055)

The only way I could see Red Bull doing an LMP1 team is if they managed to buy a chassis or two from Audi, Porsche, Nissan or Toyota (which would have nothing to do with Adrian), or if they developed one as a works team for a manufacturer (doesn't seem likely unless they are playing a role in the Nissan).

Unless they go for LMP1-L it seems like these cars are just too complex to drop a PU in any chassis and be competitive.

rustyfan · 12 Jun 2014, 06:47 (Ref:3419065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendrix

The only way I could see Red Bull doing an LMP1 team is if they managed to buy a chassis or two from Audi, Porsche, Nissan or Toyota (which would have nothing to do with Adrian), or if they developed one as a works team for a manufacturer (doesn't seem likely unless they are playing a role in the Nissan).

Unless they go for LMP1-L it seems like these cars are just too complex to drop a PU in any chassis and be competitive.

Well, Newey has had some experience playing around with Red Bull prototypes in the past...

Paradise City · 12 Jun 2014, 12:49 (Ref:3419188)

I could see Red Bull sponsoring Porsche more aggressively. Webber still has his Red Bull logo on his helmet, that might be their foot in the door.

Do we really want Newey in sportscars? No we don't!

BrentJackson · 12 Jun 2014, 13:00 (Ref:3419194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Do we really want Newey in sportscars? No we don't!

And why not? He's a technocrat at heart, and he's good at this. I'm curious to see what he could do with an LMP1.

Articus · 12 Jun 2014, 13:15 (Ref:3419198)

He's great at breaking the spirit of the regulations. Anything he develops is sure to be entangled in significant controversy

.

Paradise City · 12 Jun 2014, 13:45 (Ref:3419206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrentJackson

And why not? He's a technocrat at heart, and he's good at this. I'm curious to see what he could do with an LMP1.

I'm game if it's a genuinely experimental project. But I'm not personally over enthused if his team walks it in a LMP1 concept we've seen already.

Maelochs · 12 Jun 2014, 13:48 (Ref:3419208)

Adrian Newey seems to be one of the best racing automobile designers alive to day. Why wouldn't we want him in sports cars?

And yeah, creatively interpreting the rules---that's something sports car racing doesn't need.

Say, who is this Jim Hall guy I read about?

Mr Pink · 12 Jun 2014, 14:04 (Ref:3419223)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Articus

He's great at breaking the spirit of the regulations. Anything he develops is sure to be entangled in significant controversy

.

I know this wasn't meant very seriously but I hate the expression "spirit of the regulations"! Either it's legal and you should let it race, or it's not and you shouldn't let it..

I for one would be thrilled to see what he could do with more open regs!

Articus · 12 Jun 2014, 14:35 (Ref:3419248)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

I know this wasn't meant very seriously but I hate the expression "spirit of the regulations"! Either it's legal and you should let it race, or it's not and you shouldn't let it..

Well there are always blurred lines. Rules are one thing. Enforcing them is another. For example, you have decided to place a ban on flexible wings for aerodynamic gain. How do you prevent teams from running flexible wings? Static test is one method. That's what the FIA did and Red Bull passed with flying colors, but we could see that the Red Bull wings where moving at speed. That's not in the spirit of the regulations. Figuring out ways to beat the testing system is breaking the spirit of the regulations.

In that case, the rules are black and white. Not much else is.

Maelochs · 12 Jun 2014, 15:51 (Ref:3419280)

"In that case, the rules are black and white. Not much else is."

Well, if the rules are black and white, there is no "Spirit of the Rules."

If the rules, in black and white, do not prohibit something, then that thing is not prohibited. "Spirit of the Rules" is totally grey ... or totally imaginary ...

If the completed part passes the test used to determine if it is legal—in black and white—then how can it be other than legal? The black-and-white determination of what is legal has been met.

This is a competitive sport. Design is a realm for competition, from chassis to engine to aero.

Either you have spec cars, or we have creative designers. Which do you prefer?

Mr Pink · 12 Jun 2014, 16:40 (Ref:3419302)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

"In that case, the rules are black and white. Not much else is."

Well, if the rules are black and white, there is no "Spirit of the Rules."

If the rules, in black and white, do not prohibit something, then that thing is not prohibited. "Spirit of the Rules" is totally grey ... or totally imaginary ...

If the completed part passes the test used to determine if it is legal—in black and white—then how can it be other than legal? The black-and-white determination of what is legal has been met.

This is a competitive sport. Design is a realm for competition, from chassis to engine to aero.

Either you have spec cars, or we have creative designers. Which do you prefer?

I was trying to think how to word my reply to get my point across but this is exactly what I meant!

Same goes for BoP (or BoT) too, just let the engineers do their job and be rewarded if they did good.

Articus · 12 Jun 2014, 18:10 (Ref:3419381)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

"In that case, the rules are black and white. Not much else is."

Well, if the rules are black and white, there is no "Spirit of the Rules."

If the rules, in black and white, do not prohibit something, then that thing is not prohibited. "Spirit of the Rules" is totally grey ... or totally imaginary ...

If the completed part passes the test used to determine if it is legal—in black and white—then how can it be other than legal? The black-and-white determination of what is legal has been met.

I don't think that's a good interpretation. The written rules are black and white. They explicitly state what you can and cannot do. However enforcing the rules is another subject and this is where the spirit/intent of the rules is broken. When I say spirit, I mean intent if that's better. Black and White says you did not build a wing that would pass deflection test knowing it would flex and reduce your drag on track. That is against the black and white nature of the rules but is passable only because their has not been an effective way to enforce this rule.

Rules and enforcement are two different matters. If rules could be perfectly enforced at all time. No one could ever break them. It's exactly because they cannot be that allows spirit of the rules to be broken.

NaBUru38 · 12 Jun 2014, 23:18 (Ref:3419690)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Articus

He's great at breaking the spirit of the regulations. Anything he develops is sure to be entangled in significant controversy

.

Actually, he's great at causing authorities to ban his innovations mid-season.

Rmember the Toyota LMP1's rear wing extensions? The ACO bosses said "they found the gap in the rulebook, so their rivals should be catching up" or so.

HORNDAWG · 13 Jun 2014, 05:46 (Ref:3419742)

So it seems likely that GTE will follow the GT convergence model for the 2016 rule set.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/d...ture-gte-regs/

L.P.

madfast · 14 Jun 2014, 18:47 (Ref:3420896)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

So it seems likely that GTE will follow the GT convergence model for the 2016 rule set.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/d...ture-gte-regs/

L.P.

good news. even if they can't agree on the engine regs, they at least agreed on everything else. perhaps the 2016 rules can make it so an engine swap is all that is necessary to convert from GT3 to GTE and vice versa. not total convergence, but better than the status quo.

Canada ALMS fan · 14 Jun 2014, 22:28 (Ref:3421099)

My prediction for new G56 effort - BMW hydrogen.

Puzzle · 15 Jun 2014, 01:24 (Ref:3421200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

My prediction for new G56 effort - BMW hydrogen.

that would raise some very cool possibilities, run the range extender on an i8 on hydrogen and build the rest of the car to gte maybe

Canada ALMS fan · 15 Jun 2014, 08:06 (Ref:3421647)

Andrew Marriott just said what we've been hearing rumours of all week - the Nissan LMP1 may be front engined. Hasn't Nissan stolen enough of Don Panoz's ideas already?

MagVanisher · 15 Jun 2014, 08:11 (Ref:3421651)

Don't know if Mr. Panoz would try to sue Nissan for copying his front-engined LMP design, but good luck for Nissan for figuring out how to make an efficient FR race car!

Koenigsegg · 15 Jun 2014, 12:11 (Ref:3421948)

Gasoline engine in the front, electric engines in the back?

Articus · 15 Jun 2014, 12:13 (Ref:3421951)

It is truly a terrible idea. They won't be winning Le Mans in 2016 with it...I also saw that someone from Nissan said they secret was not front engined.

didn't those front engine rumours originate from this very forum

MoMedic9019 · 15 Jun 2014, 15:59 (Ref:3422088)

A FR prototype car isn't a great one. The balance tends to be quite poor.

With things being what they are rule-wise now, and the need for a great honking 300lb V8 being gone, it can probably be made to work.

It'll be impressive...might even look a bit bat-mobile-ish if they decide FR is the way to go.

deggis · 15 Jun 2014, 17:15 (Ref:3422130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Articus

It is truly a terrible idea. They won't be winning Le Mans in 2016 with it...I also saw that someone from Nissan said they secret was not front engined.

Cox himself: http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/n...-mans-in-2015/

Quote:

didn't those front engine rumours originate from this very forum

iirc it was some one-line rumor/suggestion on some E-I story. Marriot probably read that... but here we go again.

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