New series with Champ Cars?

[Bluewolf]

Please Noooooooo - US open wheel needs to stay unified.

[cptkablamo]

I don't see this as being a Champ Car/CART relaunch - hence I don't see this as reopening the OWR split.

All I see this being is a chance for drivers to get more seat time and as a step to a top line series like ALMS/Indycar.

It should be cheap and maybe offer a way in for some drivers and sponsors and mechanics that would have otherwise been sitting on the sidelines.

Whether it is a good thing, particularly in the current economic climate, I am not so sure...

[indycool]

Amen.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by cptkablamo

I don't see this as being a Champ Car/CART relaunch - hence I don't see this as reopening the OWR split.

All I see this being is a chance for drivers to get more seat time and as a step to a top line series like ALMS/Indycar.

It should be cheap and maybe offer a way in for some drivers and sponsors and mechanics that would have otherwise been sitting on the sidelines.

Whether it is a good thing, particularly in the current economic climate, I am not so sure...

Agree that its not an attempt to revive CART, but an arrive and drive championship seems like a good idea given the current economic situation.

A few months ago when Formula 2 was announced people were quite skeptical, with the way things are now its seeming to be a case of right series right time. GreenPrix may just be the same.

[F3L]

On Tuesday, an auction was to be held in Indianapolis to sell the 93 turbocharged Cosworth engines. This auction was ordered by the judge after Ben Johnston negotiated for months with the Trustee and lawyers for the estate, and submitted a purchase offer of $250,000, which was recommended to the court by the Trustee and subject to approval by the Judge. The Judge called for an auction, presumably to ensure the maximum sale value for the asset, and held a hearing November 18 to establish certified bidders and several emerged, notably Aquarium, Inc, aka Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe. The bidding on Tuesday would have quite possibly have reached into the millions, but that did not happen.
Mr. Johnston arrived at the assigned chamber in Indianapolis Southern District Court at 9:30 AM awaiting the 10:00 AM hearing that had been widely noticed and published on the internet and in court documents. But incredibly, the meeting time and location had been changed sometime since the hearing on November 18. Not delayed or postponed with notice, but held earlier-- in a different location.
Now that Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe have thrown their hat in the ring with Tony George and the IRL, they probably do not want a competing open wheel series to again emerge and dilute the efforts the IRL is trying to make in restoring some of the luster in open wheel racing in the USA. So it seems Mr. Johnston has been outsmarted and if he is to start his Green Prix USA series he is going to have to contract with another entity to supply engines

[indycool]

Your reprint from AR1 is a bit mystifying. IMO, the Green Prix USA has a way to go to get off the ground and engines are only a part of it. AR1 doesn't say who got the engines if some kind of secret hearing was held. If there are more bidders than Johnston, then the judge authorizing an auction in a bankruptcy proceeding seems appropriate.

[F3L]

does anyone know who did buy the engines or why the auction date was changed. if it was KK & GF why?

[indycool]

These are all the legal papers I found:

http://www.swiftpage1.com/GallivanAu...0/BIO/text.pdf

They do not answer the questions IF a hearing was held, IF the engines were awarded to anybody and IF so, who it was. They DO show that the trustee petitioned to move up the hearing date and accept Johnston's offer and a bunch of lawyers were copied on it, but past that, zero.

[mountainstar]

Apparently Kalkoven is going to get them. Either to obstruct green prix and keep them for cosworth to rebuild over the coming decades for vintage racers or to bring them back in his possession so cosworth can make money off of green prix by leasing the engines out.

[Amar7605]

I think mountainstar is right on the engine-leasing scenario.

[mountainstar]

There are some people convinced out there Kalkoven is going to use them in boat racing, but I think that is far fetched. Some think he is going to start a boat racing series, but that'll sink before it gets off the ground. Especially in this economic environment.

[duke_toaster]

*ba-dum-chh!*

I don't think anyone will have much use with this engine unless they either run their own series or will lease 'em out.

[indycool]

mountainstar, I looked into it a little bit and can't find a link anywhere to court papers, but apparently Forsythe bought the engines out of the bankruptcy auction. Haven't heard a price yet. Your premise that he might throw 'em back into the Cosworth inventory for some purpose seems as good as any.

[Leighton Irwin]

Car racing engines do not adapt well to boat racing. The required characteristics are quite different. Both Bartz and Traco Chev original Can Am motors were tried in power boats. Didn't work. The Cossies might be modified to work but big bucks.
This looks like the arrive and drive scheme of Johnston has run into a serious problem unless he can source another engine supply or deal with Gerry. Any other engine would require mods. to the cars and time in running out.
IC: You have more reliable US sources than any one I know who posts on forums. What is your take on this?
I have trouble with the Speed Channel site. Has Robin Miller had anything to say?

[indycool]

Haven't checked the Speed site yet for Robin......have a source I figure to be reliable but can't find the legal papers anywhere yet.

[mountainstar]

I believe the sale price was around $600K with the engines going Aquarium, KK and GF company.

[F3L]

Read the bit in red. Press release received from Elan Motorsports Technologies 7.1.9 : Despite rumors to the contrary, Elan Motorsports Technologies (EMT), is fully operational and continues to function strongly in both motorsports and non-motorsport technology sectors.
Following the demise of the Champ Car World Series, in early 2008, Elan retained a full staff in its race car design/build divisions in order to execute the development and launch of the Superleague Formula Series car in August of 2008.

The Superleague car was successfully launched with universal acclaim for its quality and performance from SLF officials and teams. However, without another major new design/build program on the horizon, coupled with the severe downturn in the global economy, EMT took prudent steps in December to reduce its workforce.

A significant amount of EMT’s ongoing business is with aerospace, military and aircraft industries and this part of the business remains strong going into 2009 with a full order book already in place.

With regard to its motorsport business, EMT expects the Superleague Formula Series will continue with a full program throughout 2009 with demand for both new cars and spare parts. EMT has also recently reached an agreement with another major North American race series to take over all manufacturing and distribution of its parts. An announcement will be made regarding this new development in the near future. Additionally, EMT continues to build IMSA Lites cars (DP02), Formula SCCA, Panoz Esperante GTLM and provide full spare parts inventory and track support for these cars and many others, including Star Mazda.

EMT recently transferred all Van Diemen’s North American race car business to EMT headquarters in Braselton, Georgia. This strategic business decision was made in order to improve supply, service and pricing to Van Diemen’s North American customers. EMT will make a further announcement regarding the continued operations at Van Diemen UK later this week at the Autosport Show at NEC Birmingham, UK.
EMT still retains a strong core of dedicated and highly skilled personnel. And while EMT rarely comments on rumors, in these challenging economic times EMT feels compelled to respond to these unfounded allegations with facts. EMT continues to operate as one of North America’s leading motorsport and related technology companies.

David Bowes
CEO
Elan Motorsports Technologies

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by F3L

Read the bit in red. Press release received from Elan Motorsports Technologies 7.1.9 : Despite rumors to the contrary, Elan Motorsports Technologies (EMT), is fully operational and continues to function strongly in both motorsports and non-motorsport technology sectors.
Following the demise of the Champ Car World Series, in early 2008, Elan retained a full staff in its race car design/build divisions in order to execute the development and launch of the Superleague Formula Series car in August of 2008.

The Superleague car was successfully launched with universal acclaim for its quality and performance from SLF officials and teams. However, without another major new design/build program on the horizon, coupled with the severe downturn in the global economy, EMT took prudent steps in December to reduce its workforce.

A significant amount of EMT’s ongoing business is with aerospace, military and aircraft industries and this part of the business remains strong going into 2009 with a full order book already in place.

With regard to its motorsport business, EMT expects the Superleague Formula Series will continue with a full program throughout 2009 with demand for both new cars and spare parts. EMT has also recently reached an agreement with another major North American race series to take over all manufacturing and distribution of its parts. An announcement will be made regarding this new development in the near future. Additionally, EMT continues to build IMSA Lites cars (DP02), Formula SCCA, Panoz Esperante GTLM and provide full spare parts inventory and track support for these cars and many others, including Star Mazda.

EMT recently transferred all Van Diemen’s North American race car business to EMT headquarters in Braselton, Georgia. This strategic business decision was made in order to improve supply, service and pricing to Van Diemen’s North American customers. EMT will make a further announcement regarding the continued operations at Van Diemen UK later this week at the Autosport Show at NEC Birmingham, UK.
EMT still retains a strong core of dedicated and highly skilled personnel. And while EMT rarely comments on rumors, in these challenging economic times EMT feels compelled to respond to these unfounded allegations with facts. EMT continues to operate as one of North America’s leading motorsport and related technology companies.

David Bowes
CEO
Elan Motorsports Technologies

I don't think he would survive on the Bill O'Reilly Show....

What a spinmeister....

[Amar7605]

Well, there are 2 months left until the debut. I tried to do a search for any more news, but the official Green Prix website has nothing. Moreover, there aren't any news articles regarding any developments. All I've found are blogs similar to this one, and they are all wondering the same things that we are discussing.

And another thing - all we know is that there is a race in Savannah, GA on March 13-15. Aren't there any more races scheduled?

I would think that by now there would be some more concrete things about this so-called new series. Curiouser and curiouser.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

Well, there are 2 months left until the debut. I tried to do a search for any more news, but the official Green Prix website has nothing. Moreover, there aren't any news articles regarding any developments. All I've found are blogs similar to this one, and they are all wondering the same things that we are discussing.

And another thing - all we know is that there is a race in Savannah, GA on March 13-15. Aren't there any more races scheduled?

I would think that by now there would be some more concrete things about this so-called new series. Curiouser and curiouser.

Savannah I believe is canceled last I heard. I could be wrong though.

The series itself went on hold once Kalkoven got the engines back. I think they might try another tack, but I don't see it going anywhere in this economic climate. Essentially the idea was it would be a ride buyers series with perhaps a few paid pros and all the cars would be prepped and managed under one roof. Basically a bigger version of Formula Palmer Audi or Barber Dodge/Saab. All the real estate development/Web 2.0/hedge fund/energy rich guy money that would fund this is all but gone or going quickly out the door.

A lot depends in the coming years if the irl still continues to run around with it's shoe laces tied. Tony george was quoted last month at a sports business forum the irl was still losing money and if it continued to do so, it would not be around in five years. So if the irl continues to falter and loses teams and tracks, conceivably there could be room for a well funded and run series with a new take on engines and chassis' in a few years time, depending on the economic conditions.

[Leighton Irwin]

I never expected the series to get off the ground. I just hope it doesn't take the Atlantic series down with it but despite Vikki I think it will.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Essentially the idea was it would be a ride buyers series with perhaps a few paid pros and all the cars would be prepped and managed under one roof.

...

So if the irl continues to falter and loses teams and tracks, conceivably there could be room for a well funded and run series with a new take on engines and chassis' in a few years time, depending on the economic conditions.

Bullsh*t. The American racing public will not pay attention to nor buy a ticket for a series full of ride buyers. Haven't we already learned that lesson a year ago?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Bullsh*t. The American racing public will not pay attention to nor buy a ticket for a series full of ride buyers. Haven't we already learned that lesson a year ago?

I wasn't saying that. There were two separate thoughts there in that post.

[nic.v814]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Savannah I believe is canceled last I heard. I could be wrong though.

The series itself went on hold once Kalkoven got the engines back. I think they might try another tack, but I don't see it going anywhere in this economic climate. Essentially the idea was it would be a ride buyers series with perhaps a few paid pros and all the cars would be prepped and managed under one roof. Basically a bigger version of Formula Palmer Audi or Barber Dodge/Saab. All the real estate development/Web 2.0/hedge fund/energy rich guy money that would fund this is all but gone or going quickly out the door.

A lot depends in the coming years if the irl still continues to run around with it's shoe laces tied. Tony george was quoted last month at a sports business forum the irl was still losing money and if it continued to do so, it would not be around in five years. So if the irl continues to falter and loses teams and tracks, conceivably there could be room for a well funded and run series with a new take on engines and chassis' in a few years time, depending on the economic conditions.

I agree alot depends on the economy and setting up a new series would cost alot of money and take several years to get any decent crowd or tv figures.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by nic.v814

I agree alot depends on the economy and setting up a new series would cost alot of money and take several years to get any decent crowd or tv figures.

I think the next few years in motorsport in the USA and worldwide is going to be one of those times in economic recessions where motorsport is just treading water getting by and trying to survive with what it already has. Setting up a new series would be a hypothetical several years out at a minimum.