Frank Williams doubts Ralf quote!!

[Bononi]

TEAM ORDERS...

[DSM]

So, there were no team orders issued and JPM didn't fancy his chances, probably wisely, neither did RS, so a good team result.

[Bononi]

Well, but there were team orders before the race...



That's why that rule is useless.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by billaboy
but to hear this after all the other c@#p he's got from the team and the BMW Factory this year can't be good. He's the driver and you have to support him and not publicly blast him!........ Frank's just a mean old man anyway!

I disagree with this statement, Sir Frank and Patrick pay Rafe $14 millon to get the best out of the car, Rafe didn't do that being stuck behind Michael for 50 laps on a track that has 2 good potential overtaking spots.

IMO, SFW's comments are spot on and i do believe that JPM would have had a go, however, JPM made a silly mistake which put paid to that.

Originally posted by Mark Webber

Two good drivers pushed a Cr@p car to a 2nd and 3rd

Mark, i never thought that i'd witness you say that JPM was a good driver

[Bononi]

Originally posted by mr v
I disagree with this statement, Sir Frank and Patrick pay Rafe $14 millon to get the best out of the car, Rafe didn't do that being stuck behind Michael for 50 laps on a track that has 2 good potential overtaking spots.

That defines the difference between the driver's style. While Ralf is a conservative driver, his brother puts the best even for a lost win, like we saw in the first races.

[pole2pole]

I agree with Sir Frank. For me it was Montoya,s spin that proved it, after that he fell way back he then drove the nuts of that williams and was right up behind RS and MS he was the fastest man on the track. The problem was he didnt want to risk passing Ralf in case they went off and lost there points. MS was holding them up even Alonso in the under powered renault joined the queue

[JohnSSC]

While I don't think the Williams is the best car out there currently, the team has made some major strides forward. Monaco and Circuit GV are about as different as you can get, yet excellent results in qualifying and the race.

Schumi Lite is just a conservative driver - he may not have had the speed to overtake, but it is not like he harassed Michael in any sense in the hope that Michael might make a mistake.

JPM's spin was silly but he admitted his mistake and drove the snot out of the car to get back in the hunt. How can you not like that kind of effort? I am sure Frank does...

[Mark Webber]

MR V I never said or Have never said Ralf is better . I have always said they are equal and they are !
So yes I dislike the Ralf bashing due to the fact it is uncalled for as both driver are equal and make Ralf&jpm the best pairing which again they are !

[TeddyG]

It's pretty obvious what Frank is doing...he's telling Ralf that if he doesn't start to show that he can fight for position he's going to get the boot! I'm sure JV is looking mighty tasty at the fact he may be willing to drive for free and he knows Jacques will race the pants off Ralf anyday.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by DSM
1) probably didn't exist.
2) He was close up for more than long enough, if he wanted to try.
3) and 4)apply equally to RS.

Not exactly DSM

1.) Team orders may not have existed but you can be damn sure that the team was letting Montoya know that he'd be in BIG trouble if he attempted to pass and took BOTH Williams' out.

2.) Well he didn't want to try because of 1.

3.) Monty's car and tyres would have been under a considerably higher amount of stress than Ralf's due to him pushing so hard to get back up to the front. His car probably had more chance of breaking down than Ralf's at any rate.

4.) Monty had more at stake by attempting to pass Ralf. If Ralf had attempted a pass he would be risking 8pts both for the team and himself. If Juan had attempted to pass Ralf he would be risking 6 pts for himself but 14pts for the team if their was an incident. Monty had a MUCH better reason for not attempting a pass on Ralf than Ralf has for not attempting a pass on his brother.

[steve nielsen]

meanwhile over 70 % of the voters at www.planet-f1.com thinks it is more likely for Minardi to win a GP than that Ralf will overtake his brother

[f1manoz]

Ralf is a driver, not a racer. So therefore Sir Frank will be looking to get rid of his $14 million 'investment' sooner rather than later. Sir Frank has always preferred racers in his car - in the mould of Jonesy, Rosberg, Mansell and now JPM - so Ralf spending most of the race taped to his brothers rear-end without doing anything speaks volumes and why this comment has been made in public.

[Peter Mallett]

S'funny but when Patrick Head was quoted on TV recently as saying that JPM was probably more suited to Champcars than F1, not many people made anything of it. Just a thought you understand.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
S'funny but when Patrick Head was quoted on TV recently as saying that JPM was probably more suited to Champcars than F1, not many people made anything of it. Just a thought you understand.

I'm surprised that you didn't start a thread for that one Peter

[DSM]

C'mon teddy, you're scratching here! No F1 driver should need to be told of the consequences if he takes his teammate out, least of all JPM.
Of course he didn't want to try. that's what Ive been saying. just the same for RS.
We have no idea of the relative states of their tyres. JPM's could have well been in better condtion considering he didn't spend so much time running in dirty air, losing front downforce. I'm not saying they were; I don't know. but neither do you.
As for your final point, I very much doubt that the loss of 14 as opposed to 8 points makes a difference. The point is the opposite. It wasn't worth either of them taking the risk to gain (at most for RS and probably for JPM) only 2 points.
Now if there'd been a 4 point (or better still 6) difference between 1st and 2nd, that might have been worth it.

[Ralf]

Poor Ralf, There's no pleasing some people.
We all saw the race & he was never close enough to have a go in the O/T areas.
What's he meant to do? Have a stab just for the sake of it & assume Michael would say "OK little Bro, you're close enough, thru you go"
He would of taken himself & MS out of the race & looked like a total ****.
But then again, most of you would of prefered that.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by mr v
I'm surprised that you didn't start a thread for that one Peter

Why?

[garcon]

This is why having a rule "banning" team orders is such a joke. F1 is a team sport.

Who can say whether asking Ralf to move over to let Juan have a go at Michael is really "team orders" in the same way that Rubens letting Michael take the race win was???

If a team can't move its cars around on track during a race for fear of contravening such a vague rule, then it becomes impotent in its efforts to compete for a win. This "rule" could have quite the opposite effect to that intended...

[MiniMe]

Team orders 'affecting the outcome of a race' is apparently the gist of what was enforced after Austria last year

McLaren managing director Martin Whitmarsh is honest about what team orders means under the new rules in the thread "#2 DC takes sensible pill"

In Williams, like every other team, the #1 team rule is "Don't take each other off!"

[Mark Webber]

Taken from F1-live .com


Five-time Formula One world champion Michael Schumacher leapt to the defence of his brother Ralf on Wednesday after he was accused of failing to overtake him in the Canadian Grand Prix.

Michael won Sunday's race by a fraction of a second after the brothers had been involved in a nose-to-tail battle throughout the 70 laps.

"I do not understand people who cannot see that there was no chance to overtake and that he was wise to act as he did," said Michael on his official website. "Of course, I took care at the critical moments where you can overtake in Canada, but I had a sufficient lead over him."

Schumacher said his younger brother would have had to drive "like a maniac" to pass him in Montreal. "Ralf isn't stupid enough to do that," added Michael.

The win took Ferrari ace Michael to the top of the drivers' standings for the first time this season as he goes in search of a sixth title.

But what would a 5time 5time 5time 5time 5time WDC know!

[stevean]

Michael should NEVER publically defend Ralf, it just validates the point and makes Ralfie looks even worse.

Ralf has shown he is willing to race (i.e. defend) Michael when he in front of TGF but he is just hopeless behind him (and others).

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by Mark Webber
Taken from F1-live .com
Schumacher said his younger brother would have had to drive "like a maniac" to pass him in Montreal. "Ralf isn't stupid enough to do that," added Michael.

But what would a 5time 5time 5time 5time 5time WDC know!

Wow, surprise, surprisee!!! Michael "5 Time WDC" defence his younger brother...

[Mattracer]

I still reckon that being brothers compromises the two, and in particular Ralf, in critical race situations. Can you imagine the fallout if they had collided? ralf has never been a convincingly committed overtaker anyway and TGF, well, he'd block harder than a lego set if threatened, seeing as it was the end of the race and all bets are off.

Sometimes, you feel that they are in the same team judging by the circumspection shown by Ralf towards his brother.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by DSM
C'mon teddy, you're scratching here!

I'm scratching??? Why can't you just admit that there was more at risk to the team by JPM overtaking Ralf than there was for Ralf overtaking Michael? It was not equal Monty had less reason to attempt a pass because he may have taken out both drivers in the SAME team... those are the facts.

Whatever the point I stress is that this is Ralf's character. I've asked Ralf fans to name one time they have ever seen him perform an overtaking move that took a little balls and they can't do it!
Personally I don't know how anyone can support such a boring driver but hey whatever floats your boat.

Drivers that can't attack shouldn't be in the top teams because it hurts the spectacle of F1, people don't want to see a parade they want to see action!
I for one would have given Ralf a lot more credit if he had attempted something...anything! But he didn't he SAT there for 40 odd laps

It's ok though Frank has sent a pretty clear message with this press release:
"Ralf you better show some agression or your outta here!"

My guess is Ralfie will try something next time around.

[Warrior21]

Well, Michael has now confirmed that his brother is stupid, but not to what degree!