2012 GoPro Indy Grand Prix of Sonoma

[bjohnsonsmith]

There are hardly any spectators. A F5000 meet at Brands Hatch, on a cold, wet day in March in the mid '70s, racing on the Indy circuit was better attended and Ropin' Randy wants 19 races next year?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Tagliani ruins RHR's race; the guy's a bit of a liability.

That's got to help Power.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Sucks to have your entire season ruined by some washed-up schmuck with a hot wife's stupid move.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Congrats to Briscoe, the second place for Power's certainly going to help.

The lack of spectators is not good.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Did that race just save Briscoe's career?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Congrats to Briscoe, the second place for Power's certainly going to help.

The lack of spectators is not good.

Don't worry, "150,000 people" will pack the half unsold 20,194 grandstand seats at Baltimore!

TV Ratings are a bigger problem for the series because they can't lie about it to sponsors, manufacturers and the remaining fanbase.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Don't worry, "150,000 people" will pack the half unsold 20,194 grandstand seats at Baltimore!

TV Ratings are a bigger problem for the series because they can't lie about it to sponsors, manufacturers and the remaining fanbase.

I'm beginning to think mountainstar's right.

[Razzzor]

Didn't notice the lack of crowd, but that was a boring as hell race. Dixon and Hunter-Reay certainly had no luck. Dixon seemed to be pretty damn fast - came from 16th or so on the first lap and was fighting Bourdais for third until Hunter-Reay got in his way. He must have had a car capable of taking it to the Penske's if crash-neves didn't take him out. Bit silly losing his front-wing though.

How is Helio still making mistakes like that - he's been in Indycar for 15 years now. Tagliani as well has a decade of experience and they're doing stupid moves like that?

Real shame about Bourdais, he was driving so well up to then.

Power might as well pick up his trophy now. He'll dominate the next race as well.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Boring race at Sonoma? What...?

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Boring race at Sonoma? What...?

Agree, it was very thrilling. I'm surprised that the race was only 1:20 long, it felt longer with long stretches without action. But there were several heartbreak moments that were worth of a championship definition.

Dixon and Castroneves seem to have lost chances of winning the championship on their own. Hunter-Reay also lost points but because of Tagliani's wrong move.

Barrichello and Rahal did very well by finishing 4th and 5th. Kanaan and Wilson have been driving much weaker than they should. Saavedra fought very well, he deserved a better finish.

[Purist]

I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but there is no way that the race was only 1 hour and 20 minutes; even without any cautions, that race time would be impossible for the 85-lap distance.

Even for the NASCAR races, the TV angles seem virtually useless for gauging the crowd at Sears Point, at least for me, so I don't have any great insight on that front.

There were some crazy moments, but there was a lot of flat-lining between them, and it was painful watching trains of cars build up over umpteen laps on T&S. It would often take something like 10 laps for just the first guy to get by, even when the bottleneck was going 1-2 full seconds slower than those behind.

Last night, I sent Robin Miler's mailbag my sense about the track, and what I thought we could expect from the racing today. I don't think I was at all far off the mark. To have a real chance at decent racing around Sears Point, they NEED to run the original, 2.520-mile layout of that track: no chicane, the full-length Turn 11 hairpin, and the original entry to Turn 7.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Newgarden injured his left index finger, will be evaluated once he gets back (home again) to Indianapolis.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Didn't notice the lack of crowd, but that was a boring as hell race. Dixon and Hunter-Reay certainly had no luck. Dixon seemed to be pretty damn fast - came from 16th or so on the first lap and was fighting Bourdais for third until Hunter-Reay got in his way. He must have had a car capable of taking it to the Penske's if crash-neves didn't take him out. Bit silly losing his front-wing though.

How is Helio still making mistakes like that - he's been in Indycar for 15 years now. Tagliani as well has a decade of experience and they're doing stupid moves like that?

Real shame about Bourdais, he was driving so well up to then.

Power might as well pick up his trophy now. He'll dominate the next race as well.

it was only boring coz your Dixon didnt have a good race

[Paradise City]

It was a satisfactory race [but not a great one!] and I was a bit bemused for the first quarter when despite the timing showing various edgy battles throughout midfield the camera doggedly refused to show anything but the first three wandering out on their own. The camera become more responsive to the action later in the race in fairness.

Well done, Briscoe. Barrichello did well. Pity about Power's challengers. I must admit I couldn't stop snickering whenever a Penske was interviewed although I did feel sorry for the end of Bourdais' giant killing run.

[NaBUru38]

The turn 11 hairpin and chicane were fine, the changes really suited them. The long final hairpin is impossible because there's no runoff area.

What I didn't like was the turn 7 hairpin. It was wide but too tight, so cars divebombed and several drivers had their races ruined. Without toucking the track, I see three options: add a wall at about one quarter of the track width on the right side of the braking zone, use the original left braking zone, or return to the wider exit.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Purist

I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but there is no way that the race was only 1 hour and 20 minutes; even without any cautions, that race time would be impossible for the 85-lap distance.

300km at Sonoma in 1:20 is impossible, I knew it. I read the fact from Autosport, but it was wrong. The website shows it was 2:07, so now it makes sense. The race should have been reduced to 65 laps, not extended to 85 laps.

[Purist]

Why reduce it from 75 to 65 laps? It's never really gone over time at 75 or even 80 laps, and the new track layout is probably a touch quicker, plus the new cars are faster. In 2005-08, the race was 80 laps, so 185.6 miles in 2005-07, and 184.24 miles in 2008. It's been 75 laps (172.725 miles) the last three years. The official stat sheet has been updated to 2.385 miles for this year's layout, which gives a race distance of 202. 725 miles.

Regarding Turn 7, use the original layout of the corner, that is, take the road off the dragstrip to the left, which still gives a tight, but more open corner.

Sportcars, and even NASCAR machines, go/went into the full Turn 11 with quite a bit more kinetic energy than the Indy Cars. This was especially true for the top LMPs (900kg approaching Turn 10 at ~180-mph, and Turn 11 at 180-190+mph). Even without the chicane before Turn 10, I doubt the Indy Cars would head into 11 at much more than about 165-mph; the Indy Cars have less power than the 1999-2001 LMP900s, and they carry a lot more drag.

Both Turns 10 and 11 have layers of tires in front of the wall, and 10 does have a bit of run-off. Conversely, Turn 1 has a concrete wall right there, and little to no run-off at all, yet it's acceptable when the others aren't?

And if we're being really safety-conscious, they ought to have walls on the inside of Turns 4, 5, and 6, to prevent anybody from doing what Andrea de Cesaris did at the Osterreichring in 1985. Also, they could do with putting tires in front of the wall on the outside of Turn 3b, where Kimball smacked the wall in practice.

[gomick]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Did that race just save Briscoe's career?

Heard he has no deal for 2013 - v8 supercars perhaps?

[D.R.T.]

Unlikely - he is pretty set up in America and I think he would rather race Grand Am than head back to Australia full time. Bathurst and Sandown for sure but cant it being more than that.

That said, I think he will still wind up with an Indycar ride.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by gomick

Heard he has no deal for 2013 - v8 supercars perhaps?

It all depends on $$$, my bet is he gets a ride from a well-funded DP Corvette team in Grand Am and becomes the Enduro V8 driver for a team like HRT.

There just aren't sponsors to go around in Indycar right now and apparently there is nothing yet for 2013, very late to be talking about a deal at a team like Penske if you ask me.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Purist

Why reduce it from 75 to 65 laps? It's never really gone over time at 75 or even 80 laps, and the new track layout is probably a touch quicker, plus the new cars are faster.

What I'm complaining about is race time. No race went under 1:45, and that's too much at Sears Point. The exact length of 65 laps at the current course is 155 miles, and fixing turn 7 would increase that length. At 100mph average, it's a minimum of 1:30, which is much better than this year's 2:07.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

It all depends on $$$, my bet is he gets a ride from a well-funded DP Corvette team in Grand Am and becomes the Enduro V8 driver for a team like HRT.

There just aren't sponsors to go around in Indycar right now and apparently there is nothing yet for 2013, very late to be talking about a deal at a team like Penske if you ask me.

I wonder if Penske are thinking of resizing the team?

[Purist]

NBU38, regardless of the like for the circuit, it would be kind of silly to have a race on a permanent road course that is shorter than a number of the street circuit races. Two hours, or close to it, has been the target for major open-wheel road races for a few decades now. Frankly, sometimes I find a 90-minute road race (like F1 sometimes has) to be too short.

The 85-lap distance was at least partly to make it nearly impossible to get by on just two pit stops (i.e. seriously limit fuel conservation runs and thus improve the racing, in theory).

BTW, using the original Turn 7 would only bring the track length up to 2.412 miles from 2.385 miles, and I doubt it would make any real difference in lap times; that layout of Turn 7 might actually be just fractionally quicker than what they used this year. (The apex speed would certainly be faster for the more open configuration at Turn 7.)

I'll say it again; they NEED to find a way to run the original configuration of Sears Point. That is THE way they are going to improve the racing. Also, I think qualifying speeds on the 2.520-mile layout would be 15-mph or so faster, and race average speeds probably 10-mph faster. Using the more open hairpin turns at 7 and 11 has the added benefit of making overtaking more possible, with less chance of contact, cautions, and penalties.

[Peat]

Bourdais' wrecked tub:

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Purist

The 85-lap distance was at least partly to make it nearly impossible to get by on just two pit stops (i.e. seriously limit fuel conservation runs and thus improve the racing, in theory).

I know. If engines had better fuel consumption, I'd add 5-7 more laps.