GT1 to be dropped from ACO racing

[I Rosputnik]

I wonder what this means to the idea of having a GT World Championship then.

***

Sheesh, I've only started watching GT racing recently and learn its even crazier than touring cars politics wise. Maybe not as F1, but I guess I'll get used to having more than one body other than FIA. It's not like we'll wake up tomorrow and learn the SRO and ACO have merged.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by KA

True- but Matech seem pretty keen on supporting the car in Europe, it's still a fairly recent arrival on the GT racing scene, and there's also a GT2 version in the ALMS. The ACO finding a way of fitting both the Nissan and Ford into their regs might send the message to any other manufacturers who might be looking at GT racing that the ACO are being amenable, and it's Ratel and the FIA who have gone out on a limb...
If you're Reiter Engineering, and the ACO are willing to fit the Skyline and Ford into their rule framework, then you might well be encouraged to follow the same direction rather than sticking with Ratel- and if you're a potential GT manufacturer watching this, which way would you leap?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Lambo SV-R follow if the Ford and Nissan are accommodated by the ACO GT class

I do not see the ACO allowing a tuner in as a mfg! Ford no longer produces the Ford GT. It was allowed in the ALMS but it has a limited life there because of its non production status also. Homologating one this far away from its last production date, is a far stretch I think. I could be wrong. The Nissan and Lambo are both based on production cars and I could easily see the ACO welcoming them in with open arms, with some tweaking. IMO its an apples and oranges situation.





L.P.

[I Rosputnik]

Ford GT1 specs

If someone can find GT2 specs then we can see how easy it is to downgrade.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Originally Posted by KA

Maybe saying to them 'OK, let's look at what you'd need to change on your car to fit it into our rules' might be more effective in bringing them on board than just saying 'our way or nothing'

Well, would you be in favour of a similar approach if Maserati wanted to downgrade the MC12 into GT2 (heck, it's more road relevant than the V8 Nissan ).

You set the rules, then everyone must obey to them. If you do the opposite, by waiving something once, you'll have to give additional waivers in the future

Think in the mess that the WTCC got into in the last few years! That's why I don't believe in the BoP BS that the SRO are making in the GT WC.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

Well, would you be in favour of a similar approach if Maserati wanted to downgrade the MC12 into GT2 (heck, it's more road relevant than the V8 Nissan ).

You set the rules, then everyone must obey to them. If you do the opposite, by waiving something once, you'll have to give additional waivers in the future

Think in the mess that the WTCC got into in the last few years! That's why I don't believe in the BoP BS that the SRO are making in the GT WC.

Tell me about it, the BoP was constantly played around with last year, seriously hindering the races. And also the domination of the TDI's it nearly killed the series. At least WTCC 2011 looks to be a fresh start.

But returning back to the topic at hand, would Nissan be willing to pull the old "homologation special" trick for the GTR?

[Gil Abobeleira]

Well the guys at Matech said that they wont make another car to conform to the GT2 rules: http://endurance-info.com/version2/a...ance-4618.html

Soit le législateur accepte l'auto comme elle est, soit elle est refusée.

If the ACO has any balls in it (and they showed that they have in the case of the MC12), they'll say "NON!"

[gwyllion]

According to Martin Bartek of Matech they will be build a GT2 version of the Ford GT. See http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-4618.html

[kingkai]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

What about Reiters SV-R?

What about it... There was a Reiter Galardo GT2 at Spa LMS 2009 race. It needs more money to develope further. No need to grandfather the Murcielago here

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by kingkai

What about it... There was a Reiter Galardo GT2 at Spa LMS 2009 race. It needs more money to develope further. No need to grandfather the Murcielago here

Looking at it the SV-R does look more like a supercar then a GT racer. To add to that, it's being replaced with the "Jota".

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

According to Martin Bartek of Matech they will be build a GT2 version of the Ford GT. See http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-4618.html

That's very interesting if proven true. I'm certain that Lamborghini and Nissan will both follow suit if that were the case.

[kingkai]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

Well, would you be in favour of a similar approach if Maserati wanted to downgrade the MC12 into GT2 (heck, it's more road relevant than the V8 Nissan ).

You set the rules, then everyone must obey to them. If you do the opposite, by waiving something once, you'll have to give additional waivers in the future

Think in the mess that the WTCC got into in the last few years! That's why I don't believe in the BoP BS that the SRO are making in the GT WC.

MC12 more road relevant? are you kidding me! It was an oversized Supercar of 22 roadversions after the racecar was made. Sounds very much like the old Porsche 911 GT1/ and Mercedes CLK-GTR/ CLK-LM days. The MC-12 is just like the FXX a racecar downgraded to a roadlegal version. Like sticking number plates on a Radical RS3 and say look here! a shoping car for the family.

The Nissan GTR V8 engine was in order to save money and get it compatitive against the old and new GT1 (differs what?... a second or 2) A V6 race engine needed more costs as they have raced the V8 race engine for years in the SuperGT. ACO and SRO wanted costs saving new GT1, they got that in the GTR with a ready made V8 race engine instead of a new to be produced V6 race engine. They would need a V6 engine anyway after this or next year. But with the grandfathered old GT1 I can't blame Nismo for getting a V8 in the car with more grunt for the time being with the quicker oldies.

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

Well the guys at Matech said that they wont make another car to conform to the GT2 rules: http://endurance-info.com/version2/a...ance-4618.html

Alas, Now I hear this. Who's telling the truth here?

[FIRE]

One GT class is the right decision.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Alas, Now I hear this. Who's telling the truth here?

Correct translation is that Matech are NOT considering building a GT2 car.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Correct translation is that Matech are NOT considering building a GT2 car.

That is how I read it also.







L.P.

[MJ_N_09]

Thanks. Personally, I would have liked to see those new GT1 cars come over to GT2, but that's just me.

[pitviper]

Part of what I love about the GT1 cars is the more aggressive look. I would love for the GT2 wings to be a bit bigger, and the cars allowed a bit more aero or larger tires perhaps. To me, the GT1 Ford looks WAY better and much more purposeful and beautiful than the Doran GT2 car or even Matech's own GT3 car. Though, as a general rule, I usually like the GT3 aero packages.

Part of what gets me is that I really wish there was a place for the true Supercars to race... I would love to see a grid where you could find the likes of the Koenigsegg, Ferrari Enzo/FXX/etc, Zonda R, and other track supercars. Cars like these combine the best of the GTs and the LMPs (in my opinion)... I only wish there was a place they could all race together other than on my Xbox360...

pit

[Dead-Eye]

To be honest, after having them let in now I can't see the point in already announcing they're out for 2011. Why not see how they do in the race first?

But in principle it's probably the right decision, especially if it's going to be possible to run the cars in the single GT class (with proper adjustments - they might not even have to conform to GT2 rules, just be slow enough)

[johntt]

This sbhould have happened a year ago. GT1 would have gone out with a bang rather than limping on for a year like it is.

That said, I will be glad to see a Ford GT race at Le Mans once

[NaBUru38]

GT1 manufacturers would like to be direct rivals to GT2 entries. This is the right choice: drop one class, accept or transform the killed one into the surviving one.

Le Mans needs grand tourers with brutal, mean, outrageous aero kits. GT2 rules could be tweaked to allow this.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by pitviper

Part of what I love about the GT1 cars is the more aggressive look. I would love for the GT2 wings to be a bit bigger, and the cars allowed a bit more aero or larger tires perhaps. To me, the GT1 Ford looks WAY better and much more purposeful and beautiful than the Doran GT2 car or even Matech's own GT3 car. Though, as a general rule, I usually like the GT3 aero packages.

Part of what gets me is that I really wish there was a place for the true Supercars to race... I would love to see a grid where you could find the likes of the Koenigsegg, Ferrari Enzo/FXX/etc, Zonda R, and other track supercars. Cars like these combine the best of the GTs and the LMPs (in my opinion)... I only wish there was a place they could all race together other than on my Xbox360...

pit

The problem is the FXX, Zonda R and such are small scale production supercars which manufactuers aren't prepared to back with long term race programs.

If your Ferrari your either going to show off your technology in P1 or compete in GT2 with a car that's similar to your road car.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

Well, would you be in favour of a similar approach if Maserati wanted to downgrade the MC12 into GT2 (heck, it's more road relevant than the V8 Nissan ).

You set the rules, then everyone must obey to them. If you do the opposite, by waiving something once, you'll have to give additional waivers in the future

Think in the mess that the WTCC got into in the last few years! That's why I don't believe in the BoP BS that the SRO are making in the GT WC.

I think there's a big difference between the MC12 (don't forget it's an 'old regs' GT1 car that's been adapted and grandfathered into the new-style GT1) and a car actually built to the 'new' FIA GT1 rules from the start. Frankly, even if the ACO were to find a way in for the Nissan and Ford I don't think there's a hope in hell of the Maserati, Aston DBR9, Saleen or C6R getting in- Aston and Chevy already have alternative options homologated and racing in GT2, so why would they need them, and if the ACO wouldn't accept the MC12 when it first appeared five/six years ago, why would they now?.
They're old cars, built to old regs, which have already been adapted once to new rules. I can't imagine the ACO accepting a request to adapt them even further- you'd probably stand more chance of getting a Dauer 962 in....

I don't like the idea of waivers much either, but I can't help wondering if the ACO think that allowing Nissan to run a modified version of the GT1 Skyline- even as a temporary measure until a proper GT2 car is available- might be politically expedient to get another manufacturer into GT2

[E-racer]

You are missing the point. The GT1 world championship was created to be just that. A GT1 world championship. Le Mans isn't part of that. Bartels happily raced in gt1 for ages with no shot at Le Mans and that didn't seem to bother him. On a separate note I can't believe that some people prefer Gt2 cars to 6 litre v12 GT1. I will really miss these cars next year...

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by E-racer

You are missing the point. The GT1 world championship was created to be just that. A GT1 world championship. Le Mans isn't part of that. Bartels happily raced in gt1 for ages with no shot at Le Mans and that didn't seem to bother him. On a separate note I can't believe that some people prefer Gt2 cars to 6 litre v12 GT1. I will really miss these cars next year...

True, not everyone who races in GT's wants to race in Le Mans. I can't see anything wrong with the FIA series offering an alternative to Le Mans. I may wish the races were a little longer, but there's nothing with SRO going off and doing their own thing.

It might do both parties good. The SRO is free of worrying about fitting into Le Mans and can focus working on their formula, while the ACO can still work on mantaining Le Mans to a high standard.

Look at it like this; A sprint series, and an endurance series. I see nothing wrong with them co-existing while doing their own thing. No need to compare, or compete.

[Birddog07]

Sounds like a good move to me. Now if they open the LMGT AM for GT3 cars they will be money. Hopefully the ALMS will follow suit and drop the lame GTC category. I wonder if GT AM cars will basically be GT2 cars with AM drivers, or if they will be homoligated cars with development freeze (aka GT3).

Sounds like it will all be current GT2 cars, with the Pros having the latest spec and Ams getting last years spec. IMO, GT2 needs sped up alittle, carbon brakes, that'll be a good 'LMGT Pro' class. GT AM should be the current GT3 structure, but ACO still wants to keep it all Am drivers rather than Pro-Am, which is a good choice IMO, saves money on a Pro drivers check aswell as further splits the classes. Wonder if they'll do something similar with the new LMP's? I'd be for that.