Vettel's Driving Standards. What do you think? - Page 2

Knowlesy · 29 Aug 2010, 21:04 (Ref:2751990)

Oh well then, carry on Seb!

Super Hans · 29 Aug 2010, 21:29 (Ref:2752008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

He is increasingly behaving, on track, like a complete gibbon.

Hey! What have I done?

b1ackcr0w · 29 Aug 2010, 21:36 (Ref:2752013)

I think the combination of not converting poles to wins and Webber suddenly hitting the best form of his career has put him under more pressure than he is ready for.

**Bononi** · 29 Aug 2010, 21:43 (Ref:2752016)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roths

Today was yet another example of Seb Vet getting things wrong. I have watched all this season how he has barged people off the track and like today, has destroyed people's races. Is it time for the FIA to pull him aside and say "look, calm it down"

I feel he is becoming a bit of a liability on the track but am interested to see what you guys think. Is he dangerous or just unlucky??

In a few words, he's a racer, that it is.

ChrisPage · 29 Aug 2010, 21:57 (Ref:2752032)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I don't agree at all..

Today we saw a racing incident.. I know he received a drive through, not the right call in my opinion..

I thought the drive through was fair, but absolutely not anything more than that. It was pure bad luck the way the car snapped about and took him into Button - but bad luck that came from his own mistake. And a pretty poor mistake - it seemed he got frustrated with being behind, had the tow on JB but went to the inside far too late and when the door was clearly shut. The tank slapper was from such big avoiding action. But for me still a drive through - his school-boy-error effectively ended Button's championship, so there was no way that could go unpunished.

To stray back to the overall topic... I do agree his driving has been quite erratic. Mostly due to the red mist. Hamilton has matured immensly last year and this. But in fairness to Seb his run up the ladder seems quicker, so he's doing a lot of learning more at the sharp end. Not to diminish Hamilton's 97/98 performance though.

But I like Seb, he's a great guy and an obvious talent. Exciting to think the battles him and LH will have when the rough edges are smoothed to leave two fantastic drivers.

TrapezeArtist · 29 Aug 2010, 22:01 (Ref:2752033)

There are two issues I think: driving STANDARDS and driving ABILITY.

On the standards front, he has shown an unfortunate propensity to indulge in the Chop so ably developed by his compatriate. One on Alonso, one on Webber at the race starts. Then a rather half-hearted swerve in Turkey which ended up having the most serious consequence.

I don't see his ability to be anything special (by Formula 1 standards) but I don't think he's the muppet that some people are suggesting either. He is making a lot of mistakes and the moment, and I suspect he is believing the hype, can't understand why the waters aren't parting for him and then starts to over-drive and compound the mistakes one on another.

Today at Spa, the Button collision was a major cockerel-up which he held his hand up to. The Liuzzi collision was ...... well, I'm not sure where to apportion the blame on that one. I think it needs a few moer camera angles.

chillibowl · 29 Aug 2010, 22:01 (Ref:2752034)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B;

Whilst not denying Vettel had his plonkerish moments I dont believe the Liuzzi incident was anything but 100% down to Liuzzi.... 'Tonio perhaps being too anxious to get back under Vettel, who had to all intents and purposes passed him.

On your rating it would suggest that Schumacher should have been dsq'd for slicing into Rosberg when MS misjudged his passing move and cut across Rosberg's path damaging Nico's wing.

yeah I need to see it again. but about the DQ, I was thinking more that since he had already received a drive through for an avoidable action the next logical penalty would be a DQ... as opposed to thinking such actions on their own deserve a DQ.

JeremySmith · 29 Aug 2010, 22:06 (Ref:2752038)

I am afraid that the drivers will get gun shy from having a go with all the penalties that are being handed out that is all...

Roths · 29 Aug 2010, 22:31 (Ref:2752052)

I think alot of times he cuts back in far too soon. Not sure if he expects that once he has his nose in front a couple of inches then the other driver should drop back and yield he possition. Maybe Red Bull should invest in some of them little stickers you get on your wing mirrors, "objects in mirror may be closer than they appear"

In any case he has a few too many rear punctures caused by front wings after he has overtaken.

Andrew2001 · 29 Aug 2010, 22:39 (Ref:2752054)

Yup, his standards? He doesn't have any, he is rubbish. The best of them can race, hard, with fellow competitors, Vettel cannot do this. He doesn't deserve a title, and could well have costed Button his chance at a 2nd on the trot.

**Bononi** · 29 Aug 2010, 22:42 (Ref:2752056)

I say, let them rock and roll, this is racing and they do their job, this is nothing new, many has been in the same situation, cracking under pressure, over driving and making mistakes more often than not... that separates the champions and the wannabes... bring them on !

phoenix · 29 Aug 2010, 22:51 (Ref:2752061)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B

Whilst not denying Vettel had his plonkerish moments I dont believe the Liuzzi incident was anything but 100% down to Liuzzi.... 'Tonio perhaps being too anxious to get back under Vettel, who had to all intents and purposes passed him.

I don't agree; Vettel has made (at least) three moves this year in which he appeared to consider that if his front wheels are passed a car he is in front and has made the overtake. One (against Webber) took him out of the race, one against Button at Silverstone gave him a rear puncture and I think the move on Liuzzi today (I mean the conclusion of the overtake, not the attempt which was fine) was an error of judgment on Vettel's part - again ending up with giving himself a puncture. At worst it was a 50/50 situation. I'm sure the stewards would have announced an investigation into the incident if they felt Liuzzi was 100% to blame.

Vettel needs to know how long his car is......

The incident with Rosberg/Schui was a little different, as Rosberg was recovering from an off track excursion and Schui was being an opportunist, so just a racing incident in my view.

phoenix · 29 Aug 2010, 22:56 (Ref:2752064)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roths

I think alot of times he cuts back in far too soon. Not sure if he expects that once he has his nose in front a couple of inches then the other driver should drop back and yield he possition.

In any case he has a few too many rear punctures caused by front wings after he has overtaken.

Ditto....

St00ge · 30 Aug 2010, 01:25 (Ref:2752087)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I am afraid that the drivers will get gun shy from having a go with all the penalties that are being handed out that is all...

The driver should be worried they will get a penalty if they **** up an attempted pass and take the guy out of the race...

ptclaus98 · 30 Aug 2010, 02:14 (Ref:2752096)

Quote:

Originally Posted by St00ge

The driver should be worried they will get a penalty if they **** up an attempted pass and take the guy out of the race...

The only penalty they need to worry about is if they'll be driving on the team next year. He attempted a pass and made a mess of it. It's happened before in F1 and it'll happen again. Probably next race, even.

cimatt · 30 Aug 2010, 02:49 (Ref:2752100)

I’ve stopped criticising drivers negatively as much, especially after watching Lewis take out Kimi at Canada’s pit lane – I still regard that as the most reckless driving error ever.

My opinion is that Horner needs to discipline his drivers in the same manner Ron Dennis keeps everyone toeing the line. Vettel’s very good, but also very young, even in F1 standards. And he’s good a top car underneath him so all that is quite a volatile mix. At least he’s a colourful fella, unlike Lewis, Sutil, Kubica etc. That counts for a bit for me, even if I know most will disagree.

Besides, the kid has apologised. Rubens took out Nando, said sorry and look, no ones cross with him. 300 GPs and he still can’t figure out how to brake in a damp Spa. How can a kid be expected to?

Razor · 30 Aug 2010, 03:02 (Ref:2752104)

Even though Vettel may look like Luke Skywalker, he ain't no Jedi yet. He's still a bit of a padwan. The force is not strong with him in just yet. He still needs to mature a bit more.

wnut · 30 Aug 2010, 03:04 (Ref:2752105)

Quote:

Originally Posted by St00ge

The driver should be worried they will get a penalty if they **** up an attempted pass and take the guy out of the race...

Agreed.
The penalties should act as a deterrent to doing stupid things.
Vettel's move on Button was just plain bone headed and has cost Button a shot at the championship. There was no excuse for that! Stupid and reckless!

ptclaus98 · 30 Aug 2010, 04:55 (Ref:2752125)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Even though Vettel may look like Luke Skywalker, he ain't no Jedi yet. He's still a bit of a padwan. The force is not strong with him in just yet. He still needs to mature a bit more.

Star trek avatar, Star Wars metaphor. Does. Not. Compute.

ralf fan · 30 Aug 2010, 05:03 (Ref:2752128)

Vettel isn't even the best German driver on current form

Razor · 30 Aug 2010, 06:12 (Ref:2752138)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Star Trek avatar, Star Wars metaphor. Does. Not. Compute.

The universe is starting to collapse!

Kempi · 30 Aug 2010, 07:03 (Ref:2752150)

Guys, take another look at the Liuzzi incident. Vettel was so clearly past, he had the inside line in the left hander part of the Bus Stop and was much quicker. There was not an ounce of a mistake there on Vettel's part. I know this is emotional for most here since he made as clearly a mistake in the Button scenario (lost it under braking due to a bump he misjudged, according to his own statement), but that shouldn't cloud the view on the other incident.

In the end, it was probably his fault that Kubica put him on the grass in lap 3 as well, huh?

MikeManNZ · 30 Aug 2010, 07:47 (Ref:2752159)

The thing for me is any one of Seb's incidents this year can be rationalised (Apart from taking out Webber).

HOWEVER if you look at the whole year there is a pattern.

I do not think the FIA need to do anything but the team need to sit the boy down and explain the facts of life to him before we get another bully like Senna out there.

Knowlesy · 30 Aug 2010, 08:15 (Ref:2752170)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I am afraid that the drivers will get gun shy from having a go with all the penalties that are being handed out that is all...

The penalties have not been too bad this year. A big improvement on the past few seasons.

And if the likes of Vettel get gun shy for a while, that is fine. Then he can't ruin the championship run-in for the big boys.

joe rossi · 30 Aug 2010, 17:11 (Ref:2752323)

If yesterday was an isolated incident I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's one in an ever increasing catalogue of rash mis-judged moves.

On current form Vettel is a liability, and I reckon he should have been black flagged after the Liuzzi incident..2 incidents in one race? he is clearly a danger to himself and all those around him.

He only seems able to win from pole and doesn't stand a chance of being a world champion until he learns how to control his car and his emotions with more consistency.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Driving Standards	stmookeyj033	Australasian Touring Cars.	8	7 Nov 2007 02:57
Driving Standards	terje	Racers Forum	11	29 May 2003 10:02
Driving standards	flyingkipper	Touring Car Racing	2	5 Jun 2002 20:00
Driving Standards?	Daz	Touring Car Racing	6	10 Sep 2001 20:36
Driving Standards ?	Craig	Australasian Touring Cars.	32	6 Jun 2001 08:34