Mystery 936

[cybersdorf]

I'm not sure if "Hockenheim '83" is correct. There was no 936 in the Interseries race that year; the DRM race had HRH, Poldi v. Bayern driving #004 but what I don't understand is why they should have run the car in /78 configuration - it was a /80. Odd.

[Dr. Austin]

The caption could have been wrong.

[fausto]

Kremer built two CK5s, or raced two different CK5s. The first (1982) was sold for the 1983 season to Richard Cleare, that got some backing from Gulf. It was later reworked and raced mainly in the British rounds of the World Endurance Championships (manufacturers/teams and drivers) until 1985. Later Cleare bougth a Porsche engined March 85G.
The second was built for LM83, to be driven by Derek Warwick, Frank Jelinski and Patrick Gaillard.
It featured some modifications, bigger wheels etc....
It was later "loaned" by the Kremers to dutch Kees Krosmejer, that sometime drove it with Huub Rothengatter....

[cybersdorf]

The '83 car has chassis no. 003, though - so where's 002??? :confused:
Paging agents Mulder & Scully, please proceed to the car pool immediately...

[cybersdorf]

I just realised one other thign I hadn't noticed before - the '82 Heyer car has this NACA type air intake on the side, the "'83 Hockenheim" car doesn't. Neither has your "mystery" kit. It doesn't look like it's just covered up. Different bodywork for faster tracks?

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
I just realised one other thign I hadn't noticed before - the '82 Heyer car has this NACA type air intake on the side, the "'83 Hockenheim" car doesn't. Neither has your "mystery" kit. It doesn't look like it's just covered up. Different bodywork for faster tracks?

I think the side NACA ducts were for the radiators for the water cooled cylinder heads. The 78 LeMans car had them and so did the 80 and 81 cars. I guess some of the customers ran the older air cooled unit.

There were also some cars that did or didn't have the air exit on top of the rear fender, or more precisely, just in front of it. At first i thought these were to bleed off the air from the water radiators, but the Warsteiner car has the air exits, but no intakes.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
the Warsteiner car has the air exits, but no intakes.

Look at the line that is visible between the starting number and the "W" - could this be a panel over the intake?

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by cybersdorf


Look at the line that is visible between the starting number and the "W" - could this be a panel over the intake?

Sure looks like it. But why didn't they cover the exhausts on top of the rear fenders? Maybe they found it kept the temperatures down. On the 956, the turbos are under the openings, so thety are eccesntial. On the 936, i believe it was a single turbo that was behind the engine,

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
Sure looks like it.

hmmm, no - this is actually where the engine cover begins. False alarm. Oh well, I don't know. Maybe we have a technically minded person - or someone with intimate knowledge of Porsche 936s - on this board who can tell us more.

[Dr. Austin]

I've got Peter Morgans's "Porsche, 50 years of motorsports" and it covers the development of the 936 right up through 936/81, but everything outside of the factory cars is spotty information. I've built the warsteiner in 1/43 and wondered why there were no NACA ducts. Notice also that it has the original 1977 rear wing supported by the fins. This one is a real strange duck. Maybe it is just a standard 77 car that they cut some holes in for better colling?

[cybersdorf]

The "standard 77" cars were chassis no. 1, 2, and 3. All of them were works cars that were upgraded in '78; 002 was never converted to /80 spec while the others were. None of them was passed on to privateers. I hear that Joest and Kremer built their cars to /80 specifications (the Joest 004 has the air intake); I guess they both used the "new" engine as well - the 2.65 "Indy" unit as opposed to the 2.1.
Odd odd odd. The wing "supported by the fins" was the high-downforce rear end (when you compare it to pre-'78 pictures you will see that it was actually bigger than the old Le Mans wing). I guess they used the other one for low downforce tracks like Hockenheim.

Anyway, it is my favourite Porsche prototype, and a damn fine looking car.

[Dr. Austin]

So everyone knows what the 77 car is, and to give myself another lame excuse for posting a model picture, here is the standard 1977 car.

[Dr. Austin]

aaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggg! I did it AGAIN!

HERE is the 1977 car.

[Dr. Austin]

And to make amends for my error, here is another view.

[Dr. Austin]

Now here is the winning 1977 car (#4) and the 1978 factory 936. You can clearly see the Naca ducts on the side for the water radiators used to cool the engine heads. Both of these are Paul's Model ART and they have done a superb job with these. They are better than a handbuilt. However, the #4 car is as it appears in the museam. The car raced as it appeared in the previous pictures. Why they are not more diligent about accurate restoration I can't tell you. they really got the 1970 winner all wrong, but that is another thread.



Not so visible are the heat exit ducts for the radiators. But wait........

[Dr. Austin]

Here you can clearly see the radiator air exits. Also not that they have substituted the wing on the 78 car for one from the Moby dick 935.

And check out the wierd effect on the stripe work. i have no idea why it did that except certain lighting conditions and patterns really freak out a digital camera. You ought to see what 1/43 scale carbon fibre decal looks like on digital image.

[cybersdorf]

Ah the 936, isn't she a beauty
How about a picture of all of them lined up - all the versions you have built?

[Dr. Austin]

Not counting my two 936 CK-5, this is my 936 collection so far.
The first from the left is the original 936/01, affectionately named "Black Diablo." It was painted black so it would not draw any attention during secret Wiessach testing. They didn't bother to paint it for the first race and it ran like this, except the real car was a dull flat black. This car is so pretty that I just could not bear to paint it an ugly dull black, so it gor the Automodelli clearcoat job and POW! Look at that baby shine!

Next is the 1976 winning 936. cybers will have to fill us in on the chassis number because I don't know. They brought this one home running only only four cylinders. It had been through a real war with the factory Alpine Renault A442 and was on it's last legs after 23 hours. notice that it has grown an airbox and the rear wing is higher. Renault showed up at the first race (at the N. ring) of the season with higher wings than the rules allowed. The then predominately French run FIA changed the rules on the spot to allow them to compete. Of course, Porsche had the wings mounted highr at the next race.

I have these out of order so fourth is the 77 car. Since LeMans was all Porsche was intending to do that year, they narrowed the entire car and cleaned up the airflow of the airbox. through it's lifetime, the 936 never saw the inside of a wind tunnel. Everything was done by eye. If it looks fast, it must be.

Third is the 1980 936/80, of which there is an entire thread devoted to


http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=17910

And lastly is the mysterious warsteiner. I have had three of these kits and none of them came with any instructions or reference material. If you look at the previous photo of the real car, you will see that this car is inaccurate. i had to use what little reference material i could scrounge up and did the best I could. the day after I finished it I found a photo of the real car!

[Dr. Austin]

another view

[Dr. Austin]

I think the diablo deserves another view

[Dr. Austin]

And the 1976 car as well

[Dr. Austin]

This is a Trofeau brand diecast of the 1981 LeMans winning car. this car used the engine that would be in the 956 the next year. Trofeau is part of the group formerly called vitesse and all of those companies are now consolidated under the name IXO. The are at IXO.com and they made superb models. this one was on;y about $25-30 US, which is cheap compared to a Paul's. However, i think the Paul's is better, even though the Trofeau is really nice.

[Dr. Austin]

And cybers, if you look on the art and posters section of the CD, all the factory victory posters from 1976 featuring the Martini 936 are in there. If I am in error, send me an e-mail (lost my address book in a crash!) and I can e-mail them to you.

Here is one of them. Now check out how the paint scheme is merely the black diablo painted white....

[Dr. Austin]

And this one is the same scheme as LeMans the same year. Notice alos that this car also has han airbox. At the 76 LeMans, they ran one car with an airbox, which won, and one without in the "white diablo scheme. After LeMans, all the 936 has airbxes, but I am unsure of the stripe pattern. Either car looked good, but I prefered the car without the airbox.

[Dr. Austin]

And then, there is this............