Welcome to the Unified American Open Wheel Forum

[courageous]

2 Spec series (albeit de-facto spec like IRL) combined should at minimum have 2 chassis & 2 engine options - 4 different combos.

We focus on the future drivers sometimes too much - If F1 is the only non-spec international championship, where do the next car designers come from?

An idea on engines would be to copy the proposed japenese Formula Nippon model - get into bed with a sportscar series & use the same engines (pragmaticly, grand-am would be the best pick).

[rush1]

What is "the Unified American Open Wheel Forum"?

Why not just an Indy Racing League (IRL) Forum Like NACAR and Formula 1 (F1) forum.

Also many of the drivers in the IRL are not American and races will be held outside the US like in Japan, Australia and Canada.

CART ceases to exist, there is nothing to unify now.

[gttouring]

they did merge the champcar assest or schedule and agreed to have one series.
its American open wheel forum because that is where it is based in North America... and the drama and schedule and drivers is a nut house of activity where you can not bring in stories from F3-f3000 GP2, F1 and FN, WSR,...
ICS the Indy Car Series is back in the new infancy of wicked cool ness.

[Purist]

The main things I would say are that I think the current IRL engines don't rev high enough. New chasses should be in order, but larger engines are just going to make the cars look bulbous and make them heavy (not to mention, you'll have to restrict them ridiculously). If F1 is hopelessly headed down the path to spec-dom, why not have AOW adopt the 3.0-litre atmospheric/1.5-litre blown formula (and allow 4, 6, or 8 cylinders)? This would allow some development not too far removed from what is on the road; besides, isn't racing supposed to lead the way for development? What some of you guys are talking about is just following what's already being done on the road anyway.

As for tracks, I really think we should chop a few of the cookie-cutter ovals (jeez, IRL runs at Joliet, Kentucky, Kansas City, Nashville, and Homestead), and add half a dozen or so of the CART venues: Long Beach, Surfers Paradise, Toronto, St. Jovite, Road America, and Cleveland. And unless the new cars have more power, Iowa is going to be a boring track (they couldn't pass to the outside, and didn't bother coming more than a lane up from the apron on the straights).

Now, if we could just have the Triple Crown at Indy, Michigan, and Pocono.

[2112]

Originally Posted by rush1

CART ceases to exist, there is nothing to unify now.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[rush1]

Originally Posted by Purist

The main things I would say are that I think the current IRL engines don't rev high enough. New chasses should be in order, but larger engines are just going to make the cars look bulbous and make them heavy (not to mention, you'll have to restrict them ridiculously). If F1 is hopelessly headed down the path to spec-dom, why not have AOW adopt the 3.0-litre atmospheric/1.5-litre blown formula (and allow 4, 6, or 8 cylinders)? This would allow some development not too far removed from what is on the road; besides, isn't racing supposed to lead the way for development? What some of you guys are talking about is just following what's already being done on the road anyway.

As for tracks, I really think we should chop a few of the cookie-cutter ovals (jeez, IRL runs at Joliet, Kentucky, Kansas City, Nashville, and Homestead), and add half a dozen or so of the CART venues: Long Beach, Surfers Paradise, Toronto, St. Jovite, Road America, and Cleveland. And unless the new cars have more power, Iowa is going to be a boring track (they couldn't pass to the outside, and didn't bother coming more than a lane up from the apron on the straights).

Now, if we could just have the Triple Crown at Indy, Michigan, and Pocono.

I think the IRL should get rid of Kentucky and Nashville, I believe the Busch series gets more spectators at both venues. And attendence in Miami has been bad, but if it picks up this year maybe its still a possibility. Kansas City is a very popular race and a good warm up for Indy.

And yes, Indy, Michigan and Pocono would be awesome!

[Purist]

Your thoughts parallel mine, Rush. Also, Kansas is the closest oval to home (Wichita, Kansas), and I've been to three of the IRL events there.

I very much enjoyed the CART/ALMS double-header at Road America this past August. It was a great event, and any series over here that takes its road racing seriously really should include that track on its calendar. I think you can guess what I'm thinking regarding four of the other five venues I mentioned. As for St. Jovite, it's a great circuit, it covers another important portion of Canada, and the track owner and promoters deserve a high-level event for all the upgrades they've made to the track over the past decade.

I can't even remember anymore, but what one-mile ovals is IRL supposed to run this year?

[JohnSSC]

Milwaukee is one mile.

Look guys, I see your point about wanting to have certain tracks on the schedule. Personally, I would love to have VIR, RA and a few others on the schedule myself!

Here is the thing though: This series needs first and foremost to re-establish itself. For right now, the venues that the IRL had on the schedule were the most solid in terms of not being money losers.

Now at some point we can't rule out a return to RA for example, but that was a date that has come and gone in the past and to be honest, was not supported very well (last season being somewhat of an exception).

I would love to have my cake and eat it too, but for this season and possibly next, the venues are what they are. If interest on the part of fans/sponsors takes off more quickly then you will see adjustments made as venues push to have the events at their facility.

In the past, particularly with CC, my sense is that it was CC coming to the venues rather than the venue coming to CC.

I think for now, Mid Ohio and Watkins Glen are going to be just too cool...let's enjoy the venues that are on the schedule for now...

[Purist]

Watkins Glen, yes (though I don't care for the Innerloop and just about any chicane), Mid Ohio just isn't quite in that same echelon.

Uhm, Road America has missed only 2003 and 2005 since 1983. Toronto has been on since 1986, Surfers since 1990, Long Beach since 1984, and Cleveland since 1982. Since Pheonix and Nazareth aren't on tap, and Milwaukee hasn't been advertised as an encore to Indy since before the split (not to mentioned moving around between the series), the only IRL event with the solidity of the five mentioned here is Indy itself. Heck, CART at Mexico City (without including 1980-81) has as much history/standing as half the events on the IRL schedule.

Let's face it, the venues ARE going to contribute significantly to our excitement level over the series, and the five I mentioned besides Mont Tremblant are signature events. They are dates on the calendar that WILL add much-needed depth to the schedule. And they are road/street courses, so you won't have the same sorts of issues as with many of the ovals where the current cars are so even, so aero-restricted, and so underpowered that you almost can't make a decisive move. It's painful how static some of those races can be with the cars running flat-out the whole way around. If the front-runners got two-by-two 30 laps from the finish at Texas, Joliet, etc, and there wasn't a caution or pit stop to foul things up, you watched for a couple of laps, and then knew who would cross the line first at the end. Iowa looked just like Bristol used to; if you got off of the bottom, even on the straight, you were pounced upon and freight-trained; you were utterly helpless on the outside line (because there just was no line out there, and you don't have the horsepower to run there successfully).

[Snrub]

Hopefully Toronto will be back in '09. In terms of viable races from either series, Toronto has a recent history of being better than most and I believe the race can be rebuilt. Don't wait until Nascar builds track near Toronto or it will be too late!

As for the engines, it's hard to say what the best option would be. The last thing they need now is to annoy Honda! However, if one wanted diversity, low costs and pairity, Grand Am has proven a pretty convincing model for accomidating different engines/manufacturers.

I think something needs to be done to accomidate Atlantics. It's a good feeder series and part of the Mazda ladder. If one want to bring good talent into the series, a lot of the leg work has already been done. Perhaps embracing Mazda's ladder could entice them to join in at the top.

In terms of the chasis, there's no question that the current ones are ugly and don't really embrace the concept of technology. There is no question that the larger oval wing regulations are uncondusive to real racing where the driver makes a difference. I think something along the lines of the concepts the DP01 attempt to embrace is the way to go.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by courageous

2 Spec series (albeit de-facto spec like IRL) combined should at minimum have 2 chassis & 2 engine options - 4 different combos.

We focus on the future drivers sometimes too much - If F1 is the only non-spec international championship, where do the next car designers come from?

An idea on engines would be to copy the proposed japenese Formula Nippon model - get into bed with a sportscar series & use the same engines (pragmaticly, grand-am would be the best pick).

GARRA engines have draconian hp limits, any one who is competent can tune his or her street V-8 to exceed them.

GARRA is club racing for money.
Now the IRL is spec. racing, and the fellow who showed me around Indy last summer, works there and he knows Tony George said that is what they call it.

The engines used in GARRA totally divorced from GARRA rules would be a return to something similar to that used by USAC, and CART, until CART became so full of itself it self destructed.
Bob

[Amar7605]

There's no doubt about it this year that there will be a lot of growing pains this season, and possibly next season too. Right now, open-wheel simply needs to put on good shows wherever they will be and use the media as much as possible to get the brand out there for the public to see.

With all the damage that has been done over the past decade, I am thinking that it'll take at least 5 years for people to get interested in open-wheel again.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

There's no doubt about it this year that there will be a lot of growing pains this season, and possibly next season too. Right now, open-wheel simply needs to put on good shows wherever they will be and use the media as much as possible to get the brand out there for the public to see.

With all the damage that has been done over the past decade, I am thinking that it'll take at least 5 years for people to get interested in open-wheel again.

Spot-on, Amar!

[climb]

I think the Unified open wheel racing is more interesting since right now; a longer time will be necessary to get the new structure and schedule optimized.

[JohnSSC]

Rome was not built in a day...

[climb]

ditto

[The Tour]

As a good ol' Londoner looking in from the outside I was lucky enough to attend the CC/ALMS event at Road America last year and also the CC/V8 at Surfers Paradise. I have travelled the world watching Motorsport and was also at Infineon for IndyCar last year. Dont get me wrong I really enjoyed Infineon but the series needs places like RA and Surfers in the not too distant future. Those events were simply huge for me.

Its a case of just hanging in there for 08 and beyond but hopefully these things will come. Of course it is vital first and foremost that the interest is built in America but they also have an opportunity to get the 'worlds' interest and the world loves events like RA and Surfers. I am an addict so I watch IndyCar aswell but many casual fans on this side of the pond 'switch off' with some of the ovals so a better oval/road course balance will hopefully restore fans faith in American open wheel racing across the globe. For example, Surfers is sooooo huge in Australia that they have to keep the faith of the fans there as they wont put up with a non-event for too long?? It would be madness to not capture that massive fan base and let it slip?

I understand that it cannot happen quickly but I hope they dont delay these kind of things for too many years because if they dont strike early then people could lose interest in the merger anyway if they feel they are simply watching the same thing with a few more cars? Just a thought.

[lnin0]

Originally Posted by The Tour

As a good ol' Londoner looking in from the outside I was lucky enough to attend the CC/ALMS event at Road America last year and also the CC/V8 at Surfers Paradise. I have travelled the world watching Motorsport and was also at Infineon for IndyCar last year. Dont get me wrong I really enjoyed Infineon but the series needs places like RA and Surfers in the not too distant future. Those events were simply huge for me.

Its a case of just hanging in there for 08 and beyond but hopefully these things will come. Of course it is vital first and foremost that the interest is built in America but they also have an opportunity to get the 'worlds' interest and the world loves events like RA and Surfers. I am an addict so I watch IndyCar aswell but many casual fans on this side of the pond 'switch off' with some of the ovals so a better oval/road course balance will hopefully restore fans faith in American open wheel racing across the globe. For example, Surfers is sooooo huge in Australia that they have to keep the faith of the fans there as they wont put up with a non-event for too long?? It would be madness to not capture that massive fan base and let it slip?

I understand that it cannot happen quickly but I hope they dont delay these kind of things for too many years because if they dont strike early then people could lose interest in the merger anyway if they feel they are simply watching the same thing with a few more cars? Just a thought.

Unfortunatly I don't think Tony George cares what you think or has the vision to see what is best for the future of American open wheel racing. It is funny to think that even the good ole boys of NASCAR have more vision than he does. TG really hasn't done anything with the IRL except watch it go downhill, try to bandge it year after year and whine about all his problems being caused by a split audience. I will say it again, if either series had something anyone wanted we wouldn't be having these talks today. 'Unification', if you want to call it that, was about control. The same thing it was about 12 years ago with the split. Don't expect anything other than the same old Tony George show with a few more cars on the grid for the next couple years before they pack the entire thing into a crate and bury it. People may forgive 08 but 09 will make or break the series and if TG isn't up for coming out of the box and setting things straight then nobody but the few IRL fans he has today will be back for 2010.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by lnin0

Unfortunatly I don't think Tony George cares what you think or has the vision to see what is best for the future of American open wheel racing. It is funny to think that even the good ole boys of NASCAR have more vision than he does. TG really hasn't done anything with the IRL except watch it go downhill, try to bandge it year after year and whine about all his problems being caused by a split audience. I will say it again, if either series had something anyone wanted we wouldn't be having these talks today. 'Unification', if you want to call it that, was about control. The same thing it was about 12 years ago with the split. Don't expect anything other than the same old Tony George show with a few more cars on the grid for the next couple years before they pack the entire thing into a crate and bury it. People may forgive 08 but 09 will make or break the series and if TG isn't up for coming out of the box and setting things straight then nobody but the few IRL fans he has today will be back for 2010.

Excellent post.

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by The Tour

As a good ol' Londoner looking in from the outside I was lucky enough to attend the CC/ALMS event at Road America last year and also the CC/V8 at Surfers Paradise. I have travelled the world watching Motorsport and was also at Infineon for IndyCar last year. Dont get me wrong I really enjoyed Infineon but the series needs places like RA and Surfers in the not too distant future. Those events were simply huge for me.

Its a case of just hanging in there for 08 and beyond but hopefully these things will come. Of course it is vital first and foremost that the interest is built in America but they also have an opportunity to get the 'worlds' interest and the world loves events like RA and Surfers. I am an addict so I watch IndyCar aswell but many casual fans on this side of the pond 'switch off' with some of the ovals so a better oval/road course balance will hopefully restore fans faith in American open wheel racing across the globe. For example, Surfers is sooooo huge in Australia that they have to keep the faith of the fans there as they wont put up with a non-event for too long?? It would be madness to not capture that massive fan base and let it slip?

I understand that it cannot happen quickly but I hope they dont delay these kind of things for too many years because if they dont strike early then people could lose interest in the merger anyway if they feel they are simply watching the same thing with a few more cars? Just a thought.

I have to agree with you. After going to the Surfers Race (twice), Indycar would have to be insane to let an international event like that go away.
I have also travelled far and wide to watch motorsport and without a doubt the Surfers race the biggest party/racing event I have ever been to.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by lnin0

Unfortunatly I don't think Tony George cares what you think or has the vision to see what is best for the future of American open wheel racing. It is funny to think that even the good ole boys of NASCAR have more vision than he does. TG really hasn't done anything with the IRL except watch it go downhill, try to bandge it year after year and whine about all his problems being caused by a split audience. I will say it again, if either series had something anyone wanted we wouldn't be having these talks today. 'Unification', if you want to call it that, was about control. The same thing it was about 12 years ago with the split. Don't expect anything other than the same old Tony George show with a few more cars on the grid for the next couple years before they pack the entire thing into a crate and bury it. People may forgive 08 but 09 will make or break the series and if TG isn't up for coming out of the box and setting things straight then nobody but the few IRL fans he has today will be back for 2010.

Someone pass me a gun! I feel i can't go on!

Because CART did so well without TG didn't they, that's a very blinkered view to take but good to see 'they've' sent over the cavalry!

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by The Tour

As a good ol' Londoner looking in from the outside I was lucky enough to attend the CC/ALMS event at Road America last year and also the CC/V8 at Surfers Paradise. I have travelled the world watching Motorsport and was also at Infineon for IndyCar last year. Dont get me wrong I really enjoyed Infineon but the series needs places like RA and Surfers in the not too distant future. Those events were simply huge for me.

Its a case of just hanging in there for 08 and beyond but hopefully these things will come. Of course it is vital first and foremost that the interest is built in America but they also have an opportunity to get the 'worlds' interest and the world loves events like RA and Surfers. I am an addict so I watch IndyCar aswell but many casual fans on this side of the pond 'switch off' with some of the ovals so a better oval/road course balance will hopefully restore fans faith in American open wheel racing across the globe. For example, Surfers is sooooo huge in Australia that they have to keep the faith of the fans there as they wont put up with a non-event for too long?? It would be madness to not capture that massive fan base and let it slip?

I understand that it cannot happen quickly but I hope they dont delay these kind of things for too many years because if they dont strike early then people could lose interest in the merger anyway if they feel they are simply watching the same thing with a few more cars? Just a thought.

Good evening to the south of England!

Yeah, it's sometimes easier for us to comment on this because we are on the outside looking in and it means we can have a less blinkered and more balanced view

08 will be an interesting season but it won't be painless but i'm sure we can live with that, no doubt 'them all' will find something to moan about, the Millerites

Being positive is the key, by 09 i'm sure most of us would like to see a 50/50 oval/road course split but it might not happen. For 09 i see maybe a 60/40 in favour of oval split but that would put us on the right track

Even if open wheel racing suddenly got 200 million new fans and defeated NASCAR overnight some people would still moan! I guess that's just their nature!

Nice post from you though, hope you didn't get blasted too bad by today's gale force winds!

[Knowlesy]

.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

.

i guess you had some wind problems today?

[Knowlesy]

We'll pretend that didn't happen.