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17 Nov 2007, 17:01 (Ref:2069632) | #26 | ||||
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Any set of rules, at any point will result in some degree of contrived racing. There is no such thing as a rules set that would do otherwise. |
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17 Nov 2007, 17:24 (Ref:2069648) | #27 | ||
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And btw what does that point (again!) have to do with the question posed by this thread - Zero!
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17 Nov 2007, 17:35 (Ref:2069655) | #28 | ||
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The other prototype championship that we need to be healthy is the JLMC.
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17 Nov 2007, 17:36 (Ref:2069658) | #29 | |||
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Their responses were mainly variations against that which I said, MOST of which is directly applicable to the original thread. Now your blather is more wasted space attacking the posters, so take your own advice. Bob |
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17 Nov 2007, 17:39 (Ref:2069661) | #30 | |
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The US does not need another series as it has two good ones allready. Europe could maybe do with a P2 series or class running alongside the VdeV maybe for the older chassis to run in (ban current machinery maybe)...
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17 Nov 2007, 19:33 (Ref:2069714) | #31 | |
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LMS is over-subsribed because everyone wants to race at Le Mans. Just reviving the FIA Sportscar Championship wouldn't achieve much, because people want that guaranteed LM24 spot.
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Michael Delaney was wrong. In between is not waiting - in between is the glory, the passion. In between is what elevates racing. |
18 Nov 2007, 01:11 (Ref:2069895) | #32 | |||
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Or am I now trolling??? Seriously though, LMP3 could work like GT3 does for FIA GT, as a more TV friendly alternative, with shorter races and full grids. It could work, because Radicals and Jades and Ligiers are very popular at the moment, and relatively inexpensive. Maybe even have an LMP4 for smaller engines? |
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Fred Mackowiecki- the one man I'd love to swap surnames (and talent) with. |
18 Nov 2007, 02:47 (Ref:2069914) | #33 | |||
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The US race scene needs the ACO, about as much as its personnel need hemrhoids. But--- if the IMSA went its own way, those interested in the Euro scene could follow it on the internet, and the fans over here would not have to choose between GARRA, and ACO rules clap-trap. With all the "its not fair" BS being bandied about it would be nice to be separate, or be "another" series, because the "its not fair" whiners wouild have to find something else to whine about. Bob PS--For P3 or GT3 one can already go to any SCCA National and probably see better competion, and more interesting cars--in the US anyway. Last edited by Bob Riebe; 18 Nov 2007 at 02:49. |
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18 Nov 2007, 06:54 (Ref:2069955) | #34 | |||
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L.P. |
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18 Nov 2007, 06:55 (Ref:2069956) | #35 | |||
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Please do not fall in! L.P. |
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18 Nov 2007, 06:59 (Ref:2069959) | #36 | |||
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L.P. |
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18 Nov 2007, 13:10 (Ref:2070144) | #37 | ||||
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Fred Mackowiecki- the one man I'd love to swap surnames (and talent) with. |
18 Nov 2007, 18:06 (Ref:2070299) | #38 | |||
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18 Nov 2007, 18:26 (Ref:2070313) | #39 | |||
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Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
18 Nov 2007, 20:23 (Ref:2070383) | #40 | ||
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So LMP3/4 as national classes, so whats wrong with VdeV and IMSA Lites?
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18 Nov 2007, 21:37 (Ref:2070426) | #41 | ||
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Michael Delaney was wrong. In between is not waiting - in between is the glory, the passion. In between is what elevates racing. |
19 Nov 2007, 15:06 (Ref:2070887) | #42 | |||
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If it ain't broke don't fix it. btw Jimmy - Looking at the VdeV site they are launching it with a full schedule here in GB next year. |
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
19 Nov 2007, 15:44 (Ref:2070917) | #43 | |||
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One idea is for an LMP3 category to be made and featured in VdeV, and it should possibly feature cars which can be upgraded to LMP2 spec? Like the Lolas, Courages, Domes and Pescarolo's which feature in both P1 and P2. That way a company like Lola can sell more cars by creating some kind of cheap(ish) upgrade package, which means it'll also be cheaper for a team to move up through the ranks. It also means a prize, such as an LM entry in P2, would be relatively easy to implement. One issue with that, though, would be with engines and sizes and restrictions - as was pointed out to me earlier some of P2's naturally aspirated engines are quite a lot bigger than many of those currently in VdeV... |
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19 Nov 2007, 16:36 (Ref:2070961) | #44 | ||
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P3 is effectively VdeV and IMSA Lites.
The UK has Britsports (struggling), VdeV UK (too new to comment), S2000 (popular but slower), and Bikesports (effectivley P4) The USA has C-Sports (bit like VdeV CN), D-Sports (very similar to Bikesports), VdeV USA (too new to comment but I'm not hugely hopeful), Lites 1 (2.3 Litre Duratec - around VdeV pace but centre seat), Lites 2 (centre seat and similar performance to bike sports), and Lites 3 (a low tech version of Lites 1) Japan has a funny class for converted F3 cars - these make up the 'LMP2' class in the JLMC but also have thier own championship. France has VdeV Italy as its own popular prototype challenge (not sure of the regs but I think bigger engines than VdeV), and the Glorias (similar to Bikesports but one make) Germany has an open prototype series with fairly small grids And Radical has more series than I can be bothered to list There are series I know little about in Portugal and Spain. Denmark is about to get a new one make series for coupes made by Aquila. Thats the world as it is. No need for a new series but perhaps a need for common classes. |
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19 Nov 2007, 16:58 (Ref:2070985) | #45 | ||
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Need for common classes - yes...
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19 Nov 2007, 17:04 (Ref:2070989) | #46 | ||
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Just make LMP3 more of a glueing together of various classes. Allow IMSA Lites, VdeV and so-on cars with various balancing bits and bobs (weight, bigger or smaller air restrictor holes etc ...) and the same with LMP4.
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19 Nov 2007, 21:45 (Ref:2071204) | #47 | |||
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19 Nov 2007, 21:52 (Ref:2071215) | #48 | ||
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The US sportscar racing market is more limited than Europe. We have two major sports car series and in my opinion can only support one. They both pull dollars and teams away from each other. There is a point in European sportcar racing where no additional series could be supported and the same effect felt here would be there. You really don't want to go beyond that point. The increased competition to even make races in Europe can only improve the quality of racing.
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19 Nov 2007, 21:54 (Ref:2071216) | #49 | ||
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Right now, if your a wealthy team owner, the ACO will find a place for you in P1/P2 in the LMS. |
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19 Nov 2007, 23:59 (Ref:2071304) | #50 | ||
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It seems to me that a lot of suggestions surrounding this LMP3 concept/series and mixing it in with P2 and P1 cars are from people who don't fully understand the concept of these cars
LMP1 and LMP2 are carbon chassis cars designed for professional racing teams to run, they are some of the most advanced and complex machines in the world. They all have to get through a fairly tough set of crash tests (I have a nice illustration of the R10 load pattern - I'll post it in the morning) the cheapest of them cost in excess of 300,000 euro "LMP3" is a term used for sub LMP2 prototypes, it has been bandied around by many (including me, to the point where I'm often credited with inventing it - not the case) these cars like the Ligier or the Juno are designed for amatuers to run and are mainly metal chassis (the Japanese cars and Panoz DP02 being the notable exceptions). On the whole the cost under 100,000 euro. Racing them together is possible - see the Vallelunga Gold Cup, but in the current climate its pointless. What I would like to see is a LMS and ALMS support package to include a series based on the first season incarnation of Lites but with CN cars in Lites 1 |
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