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30 Dec 2013, 14:57 (Ref:3348921) | #26 | ||
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And so say all of us!!!
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30 Dec 2013, 16:00 (Ref:3348931) | #27 | ||
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30 Dec 2013, 16:26 (Ref:3348939) | #28 | |||
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If Audi and Porsche are much faster I can see the politics coming in to decide who wins. All the time Toyota are in the fight that cant really happen - therefore the best way to get the best racing if for Toyota to at least be competitive with the other two. |
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30 Dec 2013, 16:44 (Ref:3348947) | #29 | |||
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Is that contentious then? I must have missed that...... Last edited by Aysedasi; 31 Dec 2013 at 17:18. |
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280 days...... |
30 Dec 2013, 20:19 (Ref:3349007) | #30 | |
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If Tom K wins Le Mans in 2014, he'll retire at the end of the year I betcha. Otherwise he'll continue for a couple years until he gets it.
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31 Dec 2013, 05:30 (Ref:3349086) | #31 | |
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Wasnt Toyota competitive in 2012 and 2013? Dont have any worries about their competitiveness. I just hope Viper and Vette are more competitive at LeMans this time.
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31 Dec 2013, 10:09 (Ref:3349132) | #32 | |
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31 Dec 2013, 10:12 (Ref:3349133) | #33 | ||
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We've got a Porsche squad which even internally (LMP1 to GT) have fallen out. You have an Audi team who lets its teams race on even when the race is won. I think when you put them together it will be a massive rivalry, bigger than anything we've had in the modern era. |
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31 Dec 2013, 10:38 (Ref:3349138) | #34 | |||
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As I said if Toyota is in the mix then the opportunity is reduced or even removed. Maybe it is not the cynic in me..... but the businessman thinking of maximizing the return. |
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1 Jan 2014, 08:31 (Ref:3349380) | #35 | ||
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2014 wont be the same because theyll have the new cars from the first race, theres no reason to sandbag so pushing from rd 1 is all youll see. They have the opportunity to have more than twice the hybrid power as well. Im not seeing the reasoning in them being uncompetitive. Maybe Im wrong and theyll make a dog of a car though. |
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1 Jan 2014, 14:14 (Ref:3349436) | #36 | ||
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You can point to whatever reasoning you like. The 'what ifs' don't change the results in the record books. I'm a fan of Toyota so I hope they don't put on the wrong tyres, have key parts break, or be down on power in their biggest race in 2014. |
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1 Jan 2014, 14:24 (Ref:3349439) | #37 | ||
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Let's face it, we all had far too high expectations of Toyota. We expect manufacturers to be right on it out of the box these days and get uptight when they don't take it to a team which has been close to invincible for an incredibly long time. Personally I thought the Toyota performance at Le Mans last year was bloody good. It has been a rule of thumb for a very long time now that you can start think about winning Le Mans on your third visit. Fingers crossed.....
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1 Jan 2014, 14:30 (Ref:3349441) | #38 | ||
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First is that they have comprehensive F1-sized facilities at their disposal. People simply expect a former F1 manufacturer outfit to be be able to build a competitive LMP1 car...and rightly so if you ask me. The other aspect is that Peugeot was pretty much instantly competitive and set a high bar for manufacturers trying to beat Audi. Granted, there were both reliability and strategy issues during their first few years but the speed was there from day one. Given how Toyota is seen as a much bigger manufacturer with a more sophisticated racing operation (see above) than Peugeot, I can see why people expected a lot from Toyota. |
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1 Jan 2014, 14:35 (Ref:3349443) | #39 | ||
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Yes, fair points, but in my view, unrealistic.
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1 Jan 2014, 14:57 (Ref:3349446) | #40 | |||
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The Toyota approach and Peugeot approach where different. Peugeot build their entire Le Mans program up from scratch, focused on that. Peugeot hired people directly for the Le Mans program and ran everything themselves. Toyota opted differently, they adapted their F1 program and remaining personal to Le Mans, and brought in Oreca to get the knowledge they needed about Le Mans, and integrated them into their team. I think Peugeot spend a much larger amount to create a good foundation, where as Toyota saved a lot from simply adapt and integrate. So the expectations towards Toyota is tough to say is unrealistic or realistic. Personally when a Manufacture says they expect to win Le Mans within 2 years, I think it should be realistic to expect them to do this. |
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1 Jan 2014, 15:25 (Ref:3349448) | #41 | ||
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Did Toyota say that?
Were they counting 2012? |
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1 Jan 2014, 16:42 (Ref:3349464) | #42 | |
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Mazda is prepared to wipe out clean ALMS ( like stealing baby candy) with an LPM2 (ALMS is a LPM2 exclusive story now)...
Hmmmm, not sure whether you should have consumed so much hallucinatory liquid over the festive season! Are we talking the same Speedsource Mazda deal, or is there another? Somehow cannot see them "wiping out clean" the P2 class, at least not from the testing promise Perhaps they should stick to what they have experience in, GT and rotary engines. |
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1 Jan 2014, 17:15 (Ref:3349467) | #43 | ||
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
1 Jan 2014, 17:18 (Ref:3349469) | #44 | ||
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But wasn't 2013 supposed originally to be their first year, but they rushed to be there in 12 after the Pugs pulled out?
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1 Jan 2014, 17:23 (Ref:3349471) | #45 | |
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1 Jan 2014, 17:50 (Ref:3349480) | #46 | ||
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I think they've been disappointing this last season (2013), but 2012 they were on it straight away really. After LM they won 3 races to Audi's 2.
Toyota started slow again but after LM they were quick again. I wonder if the use/application of information from their F1 participation gives them any sort advantage on the newer F1 circuits such as Shanghai and Bahrain (Hence why they are always on pace here) Hopefully they're right on pace this time, they'll have a new car and hopefully a sprint DF package, which if they'd had at Silverstone this year they may have put up more of a fight against the Audi's. |
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2 Jan 2014, 09:28 (Ref:3349615) | #47 | |
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Heres a fun fact, their 2012 car at Silverstone was less than a half second off the ultimate pace of the fastest Audi. Once they started using the 2013 tires there was no issue. I know I sound like a broken record or a fanboy, but I don't care. Imo diesel was and still is favored heavily, thats the difference between Peugeot's effort and Toyota's. Not building up from scratch or converting F1 personnel to endurance. A fuel more efficient and more powerful was allowed to dominate for nearly a decade. Pescarolo, Rebellion... Aston Martin stood no chance. Toyota kept up thanks to the part time use of the tmg facilities and the superior hybrid. I can only say Im really looking forward to this year!
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4 Jan 2014, 14:46 (Ref:3350332) | #48 | ||
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With all the changes in P1, what would be the top speed´s in Le Mans???
With all the changes they might be even less than last year ( 330km/h). My predictions is that Audi will be the faster´s, then Toyota, 3rd Rebellion and last Porsche. I even think that Porsche would not reach 320 km/h. Audi + - 330 km/h Toyota + -325 km/h Rebellion + - 320 km/h Porsche + - 315 km/h |
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4 Jan 2014, 22:42 (Ref:3350430) | #49 | |
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I think Toyota will be the fastest on the straights. Rebellion will be fast as well imo. The NA engines will be good for top speed. Plus Toyotas hybrid power will be good for a big addition in power. I bet all the lmp1 cars will be around 330-340kmh. Less drag this year with slimmer cars.
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4 Jan 2014, 23:19 (Ref:3350439) | #50 | |||
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The downforce levels will be what is deciding. So my guess will be the Team with most mechnical grip, as they can sacrifice downforce with the smallest loss. (Like Peugeot vs. Audi) will be the fastest. Your point about higher top speed because of slimmer cars is invalid, as the cars also generate less downforce and less mechanical grip. Therefor its likely that teams will compensate the decrease in drag with an increase of downforce levels to an equal Drag/Downforce level to todays cars. With that being said, I agree with you that Toyota will likely have the highest top speed, if they carry on with the more "conventional" design language of the TS030. (Like the 908, sacrificing downforce for a more sleek and less draggy bodyshape) |
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