McLaren M 4A & 4B - Page 2

horizon · 19 Oct 2007, 17:06 (Ref:2044729)

Chassis 200/10/B chuck Dietrich's 67 scca National championship car was in a "victory lane" mag for sale in Feb. 2007. This car is in Cailf. and was racing at Infinion (sears point) last weekend.

Bryan Miller · 19 Oct 2007, 22:16 (Ref:2044999)

Chris ,

No , to your 200-06 for Pat Burke .

I have just unearthed a second application / file going back to 30-10-1984 , application by Tony Armstrong from Victoria.
M4A-1 , Jim Palmer N.Z. Dec. 1967- July 1968.
Thence [ all in Australia]
July 1968-Aug.1971, Argo Racing .
Aug.1971-Jan. 1972 , Clive Millis .
Jan. 1972-Aug. 1973 , Ken Hastings .
Aug. 1973-Nov. 1982 , John Sheppard.
Then the applicant , Tony Armstrong.

I haven't a clue about the car after this, however the application has photos which show the car fully built up complete with Cosworth FVA listed as eng.

Further to the Pat Burke ex Courage / Niel Allen car M4A-2 ,as advised yesterday Peter Molloy was the chief mechanic with the car in period , R.C.N . magazine reports mid. 1968 that chassis was tired and a radius rod had pulled out at Lakside , and a new tub was to be installed and this would incorporate mountings for a full Michael Henderson safety harness , Peter says bulldust , didn't happen , however Niel Allen had the mother and father of all accidents in the car and was only saved by the harness , despite having very seious injuries to his legs etc.that kept him out of racng for months , so I think the chassis must have been changed , then they needed another new tub after the big accident.
Then the car was sold to Pat Burke Racing , however when Niel sold the car the advert. listed an M4A and an M4C , which Peter Molloy can't remember either , however I also have the Bowin chassis list , and in the list is an entry 6-7-70 , cutomer , Pat Burke Racing , MCB Mono , chassis no. MBC -111-70 , chassis only. [ not typo ]
Now this car still exists as a roller in Tasmania , it appears on an Oran Park entry list for a round of the Van Heusen F2 series July 1974.

Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 19 Oct 2007, 22:45 (Ref:2045014)

The ex Lawrence car was also here , and was restored here , bought over from NZ by Gary Simkin on behalf of Peter Addison [ current president HSRCA ] they restored it with FVA etc. then sold later and I think back to NZ , Peter Herberts name rings bells.

EliSolomon · 20 Oct 2007, 05:45 (Ref:2045161)

I don't think Graeme Lawrence's M4A FVA 200/14 and Jan Bussell's M4C/1 were one and the same. GL built his up at the factory while Jan bought his as a rolling chassis from Howden Ganley. GL's car was assembled in March 1968, shipped to NZ for the national championships and then shipped to Singapore (with Roly Levis and another Brabham BT23C) and run in the Singapore Grand Prix and the Selangor Grand Prix over Easter 1969 (where GL won both races and Roly set FTD). Jan acquired his McLaren in late 1971 and won in Macao that year.

Jan's M4C: The rolling chassis had been configured for a smaller Ford engine so Ganley modified the chassis to accommodate the larger Ford Twin Cam engine for Jan. The car was then shipped to Singapore and a Vegantune Twin Cam engine then shoehorned into the chassis for Macao and Southeast Asian races.
Jan's Mclaren is now at the Fremantle Motor Musuem. It was discovered in Kuala Lumpur some yeats ago and shipped back to England, still wearing Jan’s FJB4 engraved on the chassis plate.

Eli

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Stowe

According to my contemporary notes, I’ve always had had the Jim Palmer car down as the ex-McLaren works car M4A/1. To Palmer for ’68 Tasman series; then 1968-70 to Osborne for Macrow & Costanzo; and 1970-71 Pat Burke/Warwick Brown.

For M4A/2 after Courage I have 1968/69 Neil Allen/F Gibson, then 1970/71 Pat Burke/L Goodwin.

Others with new chassis in 1968 were:
M Payne – 1600cc Ford, for F2.
John Bosomworth - chassis specially lengthened for Buick V8, known as M4A Special, for F Libre racing.

Also,
The ex-Chequered Flag/ Bill Stone F3 car - in 1970 with T.Phillip, 1600cc Ford, UK hillclimbs.

20018F ex-Schlesser – in 1971 with G Schafer (Switzerland), FVA, F2.

20020F Chequered Flag/Widdowes – wrecked at Crystal Palace 3.6.68 & replacement chassis needed.

The Graeme Lawrence 1968/69 Tasman car - with Frank Radisich 1969/70 Tasman; then 1971/72 Jan Bussell (Malaysia), F Libre, crashed in 1972 & possibly written off.

Other unknown cars:
1968 – M Eyerley – FB

1971 – C Millis/K Hastings and 1972 K Hastings (Australia)

1972 – D Heney (New Zealand)

1975 – J Hunt (UK, sprint)

There was also the McLaren built M4B/1 with 2-litre BRM V8 engine used by Bruce in early 1967 GP’s before being destroyed by fire.

Bryan Miller · 20 Oct 2007, 07:49 (Ref:2045197)

I have just unearthed the file on the Lawrence car .
According to the applicant 1st event Pukekohe Nov. 1968.
Winner of Selangor G.P. Singapore G.P. and Kuala Lumpur G.P.
Sold to Frank Radisich ,

Then we have proof in the form of the NZ registration papers.
Neil Heney , 14th Aug 1972 .
Jon Tindall Warring 28th June 197? .
Ross John Calgher , 18th Feb. 1974 .
George Niccol Begg , 3rd Oct 1978.
Andrew Cunningham 10th Jun/July ???1983.

The logbook application and the NZ registration papers call out chassis number as M4A-14 .

Imported in Australia and application lodged Fe. 1988.

Gone back to NZ.

EliSolomon · 20 Oct 2007, 14:53 (Ref:2045416)

The Kuala Lumpur Grand Prix sounds like something out of the Ustinov script in the Grand Prix du Roc.

There was only one permanent circuit in Selangor after the PJ Industrial track was abandoned and that was the Batu Tiga track at Shah Alam (later called the Shah Alam Circuit). Graeme raced in Selangor only once in 1969. It would be quite interesting to find out about this Kuala Lumpur Grand Prix.

Graeme only participated in the April events in Singapore and Malaysia.
Southeast Asian circuit races for 1969 included:
Singapore – Singapore Grand Prix 4-6th April 1969
Selangor – Selangor Grand Prix 13th April 1969

Selangor – Malaysian Grand Prix – 14th Sept – cancelled due to racial riots
Selangor - Grand Prix International, Batu Tiga 25-26 October 1969
National Open Championships, Batu Tiga –20-21st December 1969

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

I have just unearthed the file on the Lawrence car .
According to the applicant 1st event Pukekohe Nov. 1968.
Winner of Selangor G.P. Singapore G.P. and Kuala Lumpur G.P.
Sold to Frank Radisich ,

Then we have proof in the form of the NZ registration papers.
Neil Heney , 14th Aug 1972 .
Jon Tindall Warring 28th June 197? .
Ross John Calgher , 18th Feb. 1974 .
George Niccol Begg , 3rd Oct 1978.
Andrew Cunningham 10th Jun/July ???1983.

The logbook application and the NZ registration papers call out chassis number as M4A-14 .

Imported in Australia and application lodged Fe. 1988.

Gone back to NZ.

TM Lee · 21 Oct 2007, 18:47 (Ref:2046635)

Hi Tony thanks for email heads up, Richard Griots car is Chassis #15, also a chequered flag F2 car now here in the states together again with my #13
Ciao, Tom

Steve Wilkinson · 23 Oct 2007, 11:20 (Ref:2048908)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EliSolomon

The Kuala Lumpur Grand Prix sounds like something out of the Ustinov script in the Grand Prix du Roc.

There was only one permanent circuit in Selangor after the PJ Industrial track was abandoned and that was the Batu Tiga track at Shah Alam (later called the Shah Alam Circuit). Graeme raced in Selangor only once in 1969. It would be quite interesting to find out about this Kuala Lumpur Grand Prix.

Just spotted in 16th September 1966 Autosport the following:

"The Fifth Tunku Abdul Rahman Circuit Races were held on 3rd and 4th September on a temporary circuit at Batu Tiga, 12 miles outside Kuala Lumpur. The main event of the weekend, a 158-mile Formula Libre race for the Rothmans Challenge Trophy, resulted in an easy win for Lee Han Seng's new Brabham BT16"

EliSolomon · 23 Oct 2007, 23:55 (Ref:2049771)

None of the Petaling Jaya or Batu Tiga events were ever referred to as the Kuala Lumpur Grand Prix. The earlier races (60 till 63), referred to as The Tunku Abdul Rahman Circuit Races, were at a street track at the Diplomatic Enclave/Kenny Hill (closer to KL). This was subsequently shifted to a factory estate in Petaling Jaya (1964 until the permanent Batu Tiga circuit was completed in 67). The 66 event referred to in AS was:

The 2.075 mile Sungei Renggam circuit with macadamized track. The fifth Tunku Abdul Rahman Circuit Races were held over the weekend of 3rd and 4th September at this Batu Tiga Industrial Estate site. As with previous years, the Rothmans Challenge Trophy, the main event, would be for Formula Libre cars over 75 laps or 158 miles. The Sungei Renggam track was a new but temporary site, which according to competitors, was still far better than the one at the Petaling Jaya Industrial park held the previous year – faster and safer and with spectator capacity of 50,000. For the spectator, access from Kuala Lumpur was quite easy via the Federal Highway, and for $10 per ticket, one could have grandstand access, inclusive of parking!

The Lee Han Seng Brabham was a BT18 (not a BT16), a replacement for his Lotus 22.

Eli

allenbrown · 25 Jan 2008, 20:49 (Ref:2113620)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

200-17F 1968: Ford France F2: Schlesser, spare car
200-18F 1968: Ford France F2: Schlesser
200-19F 1968: Ford France F2: Ligier

Unknown FB/F2 cars in 1969
Massoneri [French hillclimbs presume ex Ford France car]

Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Stowe

Also,
20018F ex-Schlesser – in 1971 with G Schafer (Switzerland), FVA, F2.

I can fill a gap here. Echappement May 1969 reports on the first few hillclimbs of the 1969 season and at La Roquette mentions 'Fontes' également sur une formule 2 Mc Laren ayant appartenu au regretté Schlesser (also Fontes with a formula 2 McLaren that belonged to the late Schlesser).

Also, Roger Rivoire had a ex-Schlesser McLaren F2 in French hillclimbs in 1972.

I would guess that 'Massoneri' is Jean-Marc Massoneri. I don't know who Fontes is.

Allen

allenbrown · 25 Jan 2008, 23:40 (Ref:2113708)

I just did a bit of googling and it turns out that Massoneri's McLaren was a sports car, not a F2 car.

Bryan Miller · 26 Jan 2008, 05:56 (Ref:2113783)

18F was at Eastern Creek for the last Tasman Revival , history stated as ex J. Schlesser, I have photo's somewhere , it looked very good and was being tended by Wally Willmot , ex F1 McLaren and I had a good chat with him whilst we groped around to read the chassis plate.
Car is domiciled in NZ , owned by Lindsay O'Donnell , I have a feeling Ken Smith ran it in a race or three at the meeting .

allenbrown · 23 Aug 2008, 13:25 (Ref:2273831)

I hope 'horizon' is still around because I've found his car racing in 1969. Skeeter McKitterick did indeed race a McLaren M4A-Alfa in 1969 FB. The Sebring entry list confirms that it was Red and a M4A.

Also in McLarens in 1969 FB were:

* Brian Robertson (retained from 1968)
* Martin Sellers (retained from 1968)
* Byers (known as Jack and also as Dow)
* Stan Huddleston (just seen once, at Riverside in April)
* Ron Attig (raced twice, at the early season California races)
* Judd Mangurian (just seen once, at Sears Point in June)

Also possibly relevant is that Chequered Flag advertised four M4As in Autoweek in January 1969. We know at least one of those was sold to the US.

horizon · 4 Nov 2008, 16:19 (Ref:2328006)

Hi Allan,
Still here......I've been trying to find Skeeter Mckitterick. Any help would be great. Skeeter just wrote a nice Story about racing with the late/great Paul Newman at Le mans.

allenbrown · 6 Nov 2008, 22:54 (Ref:2329754)

This page says he lives in Aptos, CA, so have you tried this address?

Chris Townsend · 7 Nov 2008, 09:29 (Ref:2329877)

Horizon

If you do call him, rather than we all hassle him, please can you also ask him to email me at chris[AT]oldracingcars[DOT]com
as I'd like to talk to him about his Ralt RT1 from 1978-79

Chris

horizon · 7 Nov 2008, 16:23 (Ref:2330156)

Allan and Chris,
Yes, Been calling for a while......I'll send a fax

Best
Tony

allenbrown · 9 Nov 2008, 19:39 (Ref:2331142)

I just stumbled across him at VRL as well:

http://www.myvrl.com/profile/SkeeterMcKitterick

piglos · 19 Nov 2008, 09:26 (Ref:2337484)

There is a photo of Len Goodwin in his first Gold Star race in the M4A at Symmons Plains on my website for those interested:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/dands...70gallery.html

Andrew Fellowes · 4 Dec 2008, 03:57 (Ref:2347006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

18F was at Eastern Creek for the last Tasman Revival , history stated as ex J. Schlesser, ......

last weekend at Eastern Creek

horizon · 25 Dec 2008, 23:15 (Ref:2361070)

I found a results from Brands Hatch,Dec. 10 1967 Mini se7en club,
Formula libra. Malcolm Payne is listed in a M4A Ford Lotus !

Also, I'm looking for any pictures of Ian Walker and Ian Ashley's F3 McLaren M4's. 1968 (april 12) BRSCC Trophy . car # 24
BRDC (April 27) Silerstone #'s 27 & 28
Guards Int'l Trophy car # 18

Thank you for "any" help you are able to provide.......

Tony

allenbrown · 27 Dec 2008, 10:00 (Ref:2361419)

Tony

I've never been sure about that Payne M4A. He's listed by Piget as a DNA at Brands.

Allen

horizon · 27 Dec 2008, 16:10 (Ref:2361511)

Allan,
yes, A no show for "Mr.Payne" But he is listed. Was,nt one of the 2 F3 cars sold with a twin cam? Chassis # 3 or 4 ?
I've contacted Bill Stone who raced an M4 F3. Maybe he has some insight.

Happy Hoildays
Tony

Rob29 · 29 Dec 2008, 17:49 (Ref:2362384)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Tony

I've never been sure about that Payne M4A. He's listed by Piget as a DNA at Brands.

Allen

I think I can confirm that as I would have been there.I was a fan of Malcolm Payne and remember him being mentioned in conection with a McLaren ,but don't recall ever seing it or a photo.Malcolm does not seem to have been heard of since.

SPman · 14 Aug 2009, 06:31 (Ref:2521164)

What is the M4 that was in the Fremantle museum in Perth? It is now currently stored somewhere around Perth.

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