FIA double standards/Brundle attacks FIA against Sunday Times MERGE

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

So let's do a headcount. Now not only FIA is screwed up, so is the french legal system?

You forgot to include the Italian legal system.But that's not unusual!

It's not beyond the bounds of reality that the FIA may be thinking about a move to China,Iran or maybe N.Korea,in an effort to greatly extend their powers.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

So let's do a headcount. Now not only FIA is screwed up, so is the french legal system?

Yes. Ever worked with it?

[duke_toaster]

I would post here, but I got a cease and desist from Mr Mosley this morning.






















Just kidding.

The FIA are sheerly incompetent. Renault should have been booted out the championship in the same way McLaren were (plus given a larger fine as they are a factory team) or neither of them should have, Toyota stole Ferrari info and got no penalty. Meanwhile, BMW and Williams don't get penalised for actually breaching the technical regulations ... What's wrong?

[paddy]

I can't say I'm surprised with Moseley being intolerant of free speech. I blame the parents!

[Knowlesy]

paddy: we won't go down that road thanks.

Still, it is sad that we are in this situation. Kudos to Brundle for not shrinking away and saying what he thinks.

The truth invariably hurts. What we are seeing is a reaction to that pain.

[Leighton Irwin]

Is this why when you type into a search engine ' Demented Dictator' a picture of Mad Max comes up?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

The FIA are sheerly incompetent.

They only really seem to have these problems with their F1 series.Why is that?

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Renault should have been booted out the championship in the same way McLaren were (plus given a larger fine as they are a factory team) or neither of them should have,

There's still time for all of the above to happen.

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Toyota stole Ferrari info and got no penalty.

This was a private prosecution and so Toyota got no penalty.Ferrari obviously thought that this process was too long-winded and so next time they obviously thought that the FIA would admiminister swifter justice,which they did.

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Meanwhile, BMW and Williams don't get penalised for actually breaching the technical regulations ... What's wrong?

Actually there was no evidence that they did.

[Chiefy]

What I can't believe is that Martin Brundle's commentary has been called into question! Surely the FIA got that wrong, too! I like the way Martin makes reference to his multiple awards... Nice.

The whole thing is a little topsy turvy. I like Martin Brundle. I hope that he sticks to his guns throughout commentaries next season and that he isn't ejected for speaking the truth.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

They only really seem to have these problems with their F1 series.Why is that?

Did you miss the WRC massacre, the comedy WTCC regulations etc...etc...?

[EERO]

First, I would like to thank ensign 14 for a typically lucid and concise summary and analysis.

One factor which has not been discussed within the course of this thread but which was mentioned frequently in the weeks leading up to the Renault hearing , is that the consensus amoung F1 insiders seemed to be that the Regie, if the decision against them were seen to be too harsh, would pull out of F1 all together. McLaren needs F1, and despite what I still believe to be an unneccessarily severe penalty have decided to accept the decision and carry on. Renault does not need F1, in fact they have determined that their sales are in no way influenced by Grand Prix success.

The fact that Renault is a French company and that Max is bringing the defamation case against Brundle in a French court cannot be unrelated.

The FIA's attempt to quash criticism and thereby inhibit the open discourse of ideas is certainly not in the best interests of the Sport or its fans.

Myself, I am sickened by the way F1 has been administered over the past several years, (and it's getting worse) and there are other sporting events that are competing for my attention and dollars.

I remain an F1 fan because I believe in it's history and tradtions, but my patience is wearing thin.

[flashing]

Another important point that Brundle mentions is the accreditation angle. Remember that all working F1 journalists need their press pass to work, and guess who issues them, the FIA.

And many of the most influential journalists are essentially freelancers with limited resources whose livelihood depends on that little red pass they hang around their necks.

It sure does look like a warning shot across the bows to me.

[ensign14]

The FIA is (was) based in France. There's going to be a significant home advantage, on top of the criminal aspect. But even the French courts should not find in favour of the FIA on this one.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by flashing

Another important point that Brundle mentions is the accreditation angle. Remember that all working F1 journalists need their press pass to work, and guess who issues them, the FIA.

Ah. I think it's FOM that issues them, rather than the FIA, as part of the EU investigation into commercial aspects of motor sports. And FOM delegates the task to journalists. They won't turn on one of their own - I think the 2008 passes are all sorted.

Although there's a part of me wondering whether journalists with criminal convictions are barred. But I can't imagine FOM/FIA annoying ITV in that way...

[Chiefy]

Originally Posted by EERO

Myself, I am sickened by the way F1 has been administered over the past several years, (and it's getting worse) and there are other sporting events that are competing for my attention and dollars.

"Well if that's the kind of justice that our hall of justice claims, then I respect, respect, respect old Jesse James" - to quote a Don McLean song.

Such a shame to see double standards in use here. But if Renault chooses to leave, then one of the Red Bull teams (RBR?) loses out, as do many workers (unless a take-over is agreed), as does Fernando Alonso... Customer teams would have to be permitted just to make up the numbers... And with no Renault, RBR could suffer, and maybe even STR... I think Renault is the bottom row in a house of cards here. Mosley must be trying to keep them sweet. In a way, McLaren are almost as independent as Williams: neither one supplies another team; indeed the only affiliation from one to another is that Williams receives supplies from Toyota. McLaren is out on its own. And like has been said: Renault does not need F1 where it is reckoned that McLaren does.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by EERO

I remain an F1 fan because I believe in it's history and tradtions, but my patience is wearing thin.

My thoughts exactly. I am getting closer than ever to jacking in all interest.

I maintain interest through the past. But how long can you glorify the past when the future dries up?

[foreversideways]

If i remember correctly a group called Chicory Tip had a big hit in 1972 with a song which appears appropriate to me.

"Son of my Father"

[flashing]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Ah. I think it's FOM that issues them, rather than the FIA, as part of the EU investigation into commercial aspects of motor sports. And FOM delegates the task to journalists. They won't turn on one of their own - I think the 2008 passes are all sorted.

Although there's a part of me wondering whether journalists with criminal convictions are barred. But I can't imagine FOM/FIA annoying ITV in that way...

Well reading your comment I thought it might have changed but it doesn't appear to have. FOM handles the electronic media (and internet) FIA everything else.

So yes FOM should handle ITV but I think Brundle made his comment for a reason. So I think my point about the freelancers still stands.

[MacMan]

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Did you miss the WRC massacre, the comedy WTCC regulations etc...etc...?

The WRC "massacre" was terrible.It's a shame no one saw it coming.

And yes,the WTCC regs are a bit of a joke.Again,it's a shame no one saw it coming.

I was thinking that maybe the FIA have taken on a little bit more than it can chew by trying to run all these series.Maybe it's time to concentrate on just one or two.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Chiefy

Customer teams would have to be permitted just to make up the numbers...

It wouldn't bother me if only Ferrari built their own car and all the others had to raid each others parts bins.It'd be just like the old days. *sniff*

[littleman]

F1 will only sort itself out if TV audiences plummet,sponsors dry up and spectators stop attending in droves. I would like to see that happen, so I'm starting a one man protest! Feel free to join in !

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

Where's the problem?

Martin's quite a chap, and although i figure there's a good dose of emotions and bias attached to every opinion, and journalists aren't exceptions, i think Martin has a rights to air what he view is right.

...however, considering that FIA is the subject of discussion, i believe they too have their right to defend what they perceive is wrongful statements.

It's quite curious to see some defend the rights for some to speak up, yet slam FIA for doing what they want for themselves.

If Martin's statement has any basis, then i think we can all rest happy that nothing worse will come out of it. But if journalists dare not stand up and bear responsibilities for the views they aired, then i think it speaks volumes about the credibility of journalists.

I think Martin can relax, as long as he has a good dose of explanation on how he derives his POV and justifies them.

There are journalists and good journalists. Martin may however feel sad that a sports which he is passionate about is turning its back on him at this moment.

One of the most odious posts I've seen in some time. And it really hurts me to say that since this is only a forum on the internet and really nothing anyone says should upset me so much.

The FIA do of course have a right to defend themselves although I'd love to learn how a French court has jurisdiction over an English newspaper, but the French courts have been used this way many times in the post by someone with more lawyers than sense.

Slamming the FIA doing what it wants is right, because they don't have the right to "do what they want". They're a sporting governing body and as a result have the responsibility to run its sport without bias or favour. And that may upset people in the process and that's what they sometime have to do. But they do have an overriding responsibility for fairness - and consistency is key to that.

"Martin may however feel sad that a sports which he is passionate about is turning its back on him". Who or what in god's name is turning its back on him??? A governing body which is openly showing bias against one of his former teams in favour of another one. I'm sure he'll live with it. Maybe he'll find something else to do with his time.

Like me - going to unsubscribe this thread now because it's raising my blood pressure further than I care to take it. Have fun watching F1 - or the WWE - it's less predictable

[flashing]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19925.html

AS always Joe Saward making a lot of sense:

"Thus far we have seen only untouchables such as Stewart and Damon Hill publicly attacking Mosley. The doyen of the F1 media Alan Henry wrote in the October issue of F1 Racing that perhaps it was time for Mosley to retire, given "his heavy-handed observations" about Stewart. F1 veteran Ian Phillips said at the Motorsport Business Forum that he has never been as frightened about the future of the sport because of the way it is being governed. Others hinted at the same thing."

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by flashing

Others hinted at the same thing."

Perhaps the should keep hinting more publicly. It will be interesting to see who has the courage to back Brundle.

[Marbot]

It would be more interesting to see who has the back bone to replace Mosley.