Define the line between commentary and ridicule

[NewsStalker]

charliesangels - Wooley is correct in what he said. Some of the comments (and I guess the finger can be pointed here) went way beyond criticism of anyone and their commentary ability and went to accusations of a financial type.

Sure - comment on CJ's or anyones ability as a COMMENTATOR, but how about keeping the personal comments about their previous employment out of it as it has nothing to do with it. Bias can come from many directions - keep that in mind.

[rik]

Originally Posted by bazil

JB and some of the guys in that team deserved better.

Surely as owner of the team, JB could have replaced the team manager or any other employee if he wasn't happy with the job that was being done???

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by rik

Surely as owner of the team, JB could have replaced the team manager or any other employee if he wasn't happy with the job that was being done???

In a traditional, profit making business, if you release a staff member on a multi year contract, you make less profit one month as you fund the severance pay.

If you live hand to mouth as a racing team, releasing a staff member, and paying a year's notice in compensation for example, it has the ability to seriously disrupt cashflow.....

Now if they had sold the BFs like were promised.........

[rik]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If you live hand to mouth as a racing team, releasing a staff member, and paying a year's notice in compensation for example, it has the ability to seriously disrupt cashflow.....

Luxurious multiyear contracts like that are usually are reserved for the elite of their field. Perhaps not so in racing? Anyway I'd assume it was JB as the team owner who decided to sign people up to such contracts?

Anyway, at the end of the day surely you'd be better off having seriously disrupted cashflow than sit on your hands and watch someone run your business into the ground as claimed happen here?

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by bazil

However if say Matty White was to bag the driving ability or skills of a driver, there would be a pretty strong case to argue about his right to comment based on his driving background or lack there of.

This sentiment is one I basically disagree with. The, line that broadly speaking, says all sports commentators should be ex-players.

Which by extension means that the media profession should not exist, as every journalist/presenter of any description should be a former 'ex-insert career here'. It is essentially belittling communication as a skill and also belittling everyon who has studied it,and then spent hours working on and studying their subjects.

No, commentators should be communicators first, not racing drivers looking for a gig.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by rik

Luxurious multiyear contracts like that are usually are reserved for the elite of their field. Perhaps not so in racing? Anyway I'd assume it was JB as the team owner who decided to sign people up to such contracts?

Anyway, at the end of the day surely you'd be better off having seriously disrupted cashflow than sit on your hands and watch someone run your business into the ground as claimed happen here?

Its not luxurious when you hire someone you have known for nigh on 15 years and want to given them some security. From one angle it makes sense, from another, it is optimistic.

Do race teams normally have $150k in petty cash to correct such adventures?

[bazil]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

This sentiment is one I basically disagree with. The, line that broadly speaking, says all sports commentators should be ex-players.

Which by extension means that the media profession should not exist, as every journalist/presenter of any description should be a former 'ex-insert career here'. It is essentially belittling communication as a skill and also belittling everyon who has studied it,and then spent hours working on and studying their subjects.

No, commentators should be communicators first, not racing drivers looking for a gig.

Falcadore, I take your point and must admit had some reservations when I wrote it but perhaps this is a good example of as you say correctly communicating. I also believe the theory that the “best players don’t always make the best coaches”. (Or drivers/commentators)

However if watching the State of Origin and Kenny "two dogs" Sutcliffe gave a critical analysis of a player or a coach it would not hold the same weight as it would if Laurie Daley had offered it. On the other hand as a commentator I would much rather listen to Ray Warren "call" the game and commentate in general than listen to Phil Gould.

So in hindsight what I should have said is Matty White is entitled to offer critical comment but it may carry less value compared to if Neil Crompton or Alan Moffat had offered it (even if well communicated as a journalist). Either way they should all expect to be accountable or answerable for their opinions just like we all are. The bloke the topic seems to revolve around appears to struggle both from a communicator perspective and a credibility point of view…

[NewsStalker]

It is interesting that the one person I didn;t think would be any good ay commentary, has IMHO, been quite good - and seems to be actgually getting better. I mean Mark Skaife. He has a reasonably good team around him - he is fresh out of the cars so he has a very good knowledge of how they currently perfom; Crompton has also benefitted from having driven in the cars albeit not recently; and, again IMHO, the biggest surprise has been the 'pit reporter' errr whats-is-name? Larkham has probably found a niche that absolutel suits him.

It's a pity that these three can't also be used for 'at-track' commentary because they are exactly the sort of people who SHOULD be calling a race - whether on TV, radio or around the track.

[bazil]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

the biggest surprise has been the 'pit reporter' errr whats-is-name? Larkham has probably found a niche that absolutel suits him.

Larko is a top bloke and would be sadly missed if not involved directly with the sport. I think long term he will be much more than a pitlane reporter even though he is "great" at it.

[mctshirt]

Neil "I've just intercepted a radio call from driver X saying he has adjusted his roll bar setting" Crompton bores me to tears. I enjoy it when Skaife has a deserved crack at him. As a team they probably work.

IMHO Brad Jones occasional forays into calling the Fujitsu races have been informative and insightful without bias while being entertaining. We need more commentators like him who can describe what's going on without using the word "I" to start every sentence.

[mac]

A commentator should have sufficient knowledge and understanding to call it as he sees it - and it sometimes frustrates me that some commentators are occasionally overly politically correct.

However, simply bagging drivers, officials, or teams is out of order and completely uncalled for.

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by mac

However, simply bagging drivers, officials, or teams is out of order and completely uncalled for.

Unless pre-arranged by the event organiser, circuit operator or CAMS (Hmmmm this would NEVER happen now, would it? Not much it wouldn't!)

[Donnaracer]

Well said charliesangels and the previous posters who have acted on their right to say exactly what they want to say. There is nothing wrong with that.

I must admit, that after seeing three similar entire threads get pulled,the smarter move of just removing the more offensive posts was somewhat an improvement. BUT - Woolley, it does wreak of controlling what people say. This is a bit disheartening for a forum that not only is globally famed, but on which far worse has and continues to appear - particularly in relation to commentators! As you can see, I have not posted until this year, but have visited this site countless times over the years and seen far, far worse than what charliesangels or any of the other posters have added.

As to the level of detail that some people on this forum seem to know of Jason Bright's finances and how they ended up in such a mess a) they are either making it up, or b) are former staffers - because the detail is incredible and after speaking to some people in the industry, they seem to be spot on as well... In which case, bring it on, because there seems to definitely be a story there that seems to wind its way back to the same central figure every time.

Nice work anyway, very interesting reading.

[Gaslight]

Originally Posted by Donnaracer

Well said charliesangels and the previous posters who have acted on their right to say exactly what they want to say. There is nothing wrong with that.

I must admit, that after seeing three similar entire threads get pulled,the smarter move of just removing the more offensive posts was somewhat an improvement. BUT - Woolley, it does wreak of controlling what people say. This is a bit disheartening for a forum that not only is globally famed, but on which far worse has and continues to appear - particularly in relation to commentators! As you can see, I have not posted until this year, but have visited this site countless times over the years and seen far, far worse than what charliesangels or any of the other posters have added.

As to the level of detail that some people on this forum seem to know of Jason Bright's finances and how they ended up in such a mess a) they are either making it up, or b) are former staffers - because the detail is incredible and after speaking to some people in the industry, they seem to be spot on as well... In which case, bring it on, because there seems to definitely be a story there that seems to wind its way back to the same central figure every time.

Nice work anyway, very interesting reading.

Nice post and well said and written
Wouldnt it be interesting to find if that many posters here on this site are indeed workers themselves at VESA, friends, family or lovers of drivers, team owners, engineers, marshalls, track officials, media and the likes... I know too of the Britek Struggle and Charliesangels was a brave soul to combat the (what seemed to be the biased political correctness) of some threadsters here.
Maybe people are partial to being bribed (meaning if anyone writes nasty things about me, please inform me or pull down the thread and I will buy you a beer at the track)
Britek had alot of shysters and schmucks at the helm, it was obvious and evident, not only by the lack of results but money going missing, tools going missing, lack of sponsors and mistakes, workers taking advantage of the boss being away alot and them expecting free rides and free grog on fridays without working hard or producing results.
Chris Jewell (oops has been outed again) was the GM of Britek as like the GM of Bonds was targeted why you may ask? because they are the ones who control the cash flow, they are the ones that communicate with the CEO (bright) as to how much budget they have left or can spend, having kept his mouth shut the demise of Britek happend and also the stuff up happened at Tasman, this should highlight alarm bells as to his professional conduct in motorsport... Now as for commentary... his lack of skills and personality (oops was that a personal attack) has lead many people to make comments, which is fair and just. WE do pay for him being there, so if people need to highlight the fact that he aint doing his job correctly, that is indeed within our rights to do so...
Now if Mr Jewell has an issue with some negative press, maybe he should step back and produce a better quality of commentary or quit and retire to bermuda
Track commetnary should be exciting and informative, not motorsport gossip due to his "friends" in the sport and telling stories or more like fibs

[krypto71]

Gee Gaslight, I'd also be interested to know where you fit into the Britek picture, as you seem to have an agenda or grievance of some sort against the team, but I assume you have no intentions of coming out....

[Gaslight]

Originally Posted by krypto71

Gee Gaslight, I'd also be interested to know where you fit into the Britek picture, as you seem to have an agenda or grievance of some sort against the team, but I assume you have no intentions of coming out....

My grievance is a pure one..... the team doesnt exist anymore, and it had all the potential to exist and be successful, a standalone fully funded build their own cars and not reliant on Factory or tripple 8 or sbr.... as charliesangels has mentioned previously... anyone who was a fan of Britek would know the deal, anyone who is in the industry would know the deal, you dont have to be a brain surgeon to figure stuff out, people talk

V8 Supercars is a very incestual place, ex employees of Britek are now working for Kelly racing, (which is funny cos Brights ex GF of 5 years is now dating Rick Kelly) ex Tasman Chris Jewell went to Britek and now is in commentary, people chop and change and take their mistakes and reputation with them... you have to understand this world is a contrived one with lots of disgruntled and mismanaged people

Listening to the talk round Britek, not hard to understand where the trouble was.... fans, sponsors and most of all Bright lost his dream due to Mr Jewells Mismanagement, the fans suffered, Bright Suffered and most of all the sport suffered, it missed out a on having an original and fresh team that could bring somethinng different to the table....instead we have bull**** teams like inta racing and PCR (wilson) that just buy bits off others and claim to run their own team.

In my honest opinion, they need to do background checks on alot of people in v8 supercars.... How can you be a GM for a team that has had its money dry up....and then commentate? your information and judgement would be clouded, your perspective would never be without a subjective thought.

His words about Jason Richards and Tasman came due to the fact he used to work for them...

Media commentators are different from Track Commentators. Track Commentators are there to tell the public at the track what is going on, who is in which position, how many laps to go and get the public excited about the race and race finish not make personal comments about people they have worked with or know... or embellish their roles at certain places Hope that answers your question

[Axeman444]

my 2 cents, if you had a commentary team that had no knowledge of how things work, who was who in the cars, and the current situation of the race, you would have a panel of Murray Walker's. and THAT would drive me to

on the other hand if you had 3 Mark Skaife's it would be all "trying to be funny" and end up even less enlightening about motorsport than the NRL Footy Show is about the NRL.

you need balance. you get this with Ch7, but prob not with the smaller commentary crew at the track. Does the track commentary warrant being enlarged? probably not. so therefore these characters need to cover additional roles in the funny/informed/knowledgable areas unlike 1 per role in the Ch7 crew.

[rik]

Originally Posted by Gaslight

How can you be a GM for a team that has had its money dry up....and then commentate? your information and judgement would be clouded, your perspective would never be without a subjective thought.

Surely by that logic Mark Skaife shouldn't be commentating? Especially since he is still associated with Holden clouding his judgement???

[Gaslight]

Originally Posted by rik

Surely by that logic Mark Skaife shouldn't be commentating? Especially since he is still associated with Holden clouding his judgement???

He shouldnt be in my opnion, it was like Eddie Macguire (club president) trying to commentate the Collingwood AFL games, filled with stupid comments and irrelavant biased information

Skaife should be teaching the youngsters not inflating his already big ego, but hey the contract at 7 paid for a real house and not a rented one

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Donnaracer

Well said charliesangels and the previous posters who have acted on their right to say exactly what they want to say. There is nothing wrong with that.

OK, fine, anyone can say exactly what they like about someone else. Of course, you have to allow the commentator exactly the same rights... Which means you can't criticize one who does because they're simply doing what you're telling me is acceptable.

If there's one thing seriously gets my goat it's hypocrosy and double standards.

[Crash Test]

Jonsey is the statistical god... I'm surprised he hasn't figured out a way to win lotto. Also the fact that we work together something silly like 30 weekends a year for the past 10 years, we've kind of figured things out by now...

[Gaslight]

I have a question, now that Chris Jewell is off on his 2nd honeymoon to the USA, I saw Sam's dress, looked like it was made of fake stones, I mean since britek has gone bust, how could he afford real diamonds for the mrs??? is he due back to work at townsville or is this the perfect opportunity to get someone else to actually enterain and comment properly???

[redesp]

After trolling this thread. I'm of the opinion that commentary is a bit Soft..

Barry would have told it how it was...

Skaife and Cromly do a good job with both technical explanations and in understanding drivers and tactics.

I enjoy the "freedoms" given to drivers / Crew managers etc to comment on on track incidents..


What about this commentary??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgBvCplFrBI

[GTRMagic]

Is it right that Mr Aunger was co-commentator in Townsville, and Mr Van Den Dungen shall be co-commentator at Sandown? I presume this is for the support classes?

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Is it right that Mr Aunger was co-commentator in Townsville, and Mr Van Den Dungen shall be co-commentator at Sandown? I presume this is for the support classes?

Our Ameranisation is now complete as Townsville has a "Main Straightaway"