New Licence and Towing Regs for 2013

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

You are correct Tim, a bloke next to me at work had a "smallish" box trailer that he towed with a Saab 9.5, as his business was expanding he sold it and brought a bigger one and started to use it only to be told by the law that although he wasn't overweight the trailer was capable of taking more, so in fact it is illegal to tow it even if it is empty !

The bit I was quoting was if you have a B licence, if you have B+E then It's different. My LandCruiser can legally tow 2800kg but I can and do put Eric's 3000kg trailer behind it as does he with his ****ron C5.
I've got it on good authority from two different VOSA enforcement officers that it's legal, the only problem is if you get a plod or even VOSA who make the law up as they go along. There's a few of them on Piston Heads to prove this point.

[touringlegend]

Tim, my dad had that problem too. His car can tow 2800kg, the trailer he bought is a 3500kg Ifor Williams. The manufacturer/dealer provided a document to say that this matter had been tackled with VOSA etc and providing you didn't exceed the tow vehicles capacity all was legal.

I actually went and sat my B+E a few years ago so as I could tow without a worry. A year later I was helping out with race cars all over the country - it paid for itself several times over!

[Si Frowen]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

You are correct Tim, a bloke next to me at work had a "smallish" box trailer that he towed with a Saab 9.5, as his business was expanding he sold it and brought a bigger one and started to use it only to be told by the law that although he wasn't overweight the trailer was capable of taking more, so in fact it is illegal to tow it even if it is empty !
I would have thought that there are loads of builders/horse box people out there that are now deemed illegal and don't know about it !
Having been pulled for being "overweight" by the law in the past i am aware believe me !

Easiest thing to do in this situation to stay legal is to have Ifor/Brian James/whoever plate your trailer down to the max weight your car can handle - cost maybe a tenner, put it on with bolts vice rivets and hey presto when you want to sell it the trailer can carry its full weight in about 2 mins

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

the only problem is if you get a plod or even VOSA who make the law up as they go along.

Exactly, just like the 13 year old one that tried to do me and failed because he hadn't done his homework, I was even awarded costs

[midgetman]

I was stopped by VOSA towing a Midget on a big trailer, but it was an old one with no weight plate so there was no problem. It seems absurd that if your trailer is too old to comply you can get away with it. I suppose it's a self-correcting problem in that as older equipment is scrapped only plated trailers will be around.

Tim, to get this straight in my mind, because I'm old and have BE on my licence I can tow a trailer that exceeds the theoretical maximum of my tow car GTW as long as the actual weight is within it? i.e. the ZS can tow 1000kg, but I can tow a trailer rated at 1500kg as long as the all-up weight of trailer and load is under 1000kg?

Do I have a problem when I hire a van and trailer to carry the 924, but have to return the empty trailer behind the ZS because the van has to be checked in earlier than the trailer. The trailer hire company is actually next door to the County Police HQ, so I expect they're all on good terms anyway

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I was stopped by VOSA towing a Midget on a big trailer, but it was an old one with no weight plate so there was no problem. It seems absurd that if your trailer is too old to comply you can get away with it. I suppose it's a self-correcting problem in that as older equipment is scrapped only plated trailers will be around.

Tim, to get this straight in my mind, because I'm old and have BE on my licence I can tow a trailer that exceeds the theoretical maximum of my tow car GTW as long as the actual weight is within it? i.e. the ZS can tow 1000kg, but I can tow a trailer rated at 1500kg as long as the all-up weight of trailer and load is under 1000kg?

Do I have a problem when I hire a van and trailer to carry the 924, but have to return the empty trailer behind the ZS because the van has to be checked in earlier than the trailer. The trailer hire company is actually next door to the County Police HQ, so I expect they're all on good terms anyway

According to the various VOSA people I've asked, you are OK doing this but as I said earlier the police often have different ideas so don't take my word for it. I will carry on towing uncle Eric's 3500kg trailer behind my Landcruiser which can tow a max of 2800kg if I need to and not worry about it.
With a trailer that is not plated they will normally go off the tyre ratings to determine GVW.
Don't you have a seven and a half tonner you could use or have I been dreaming again?

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

According to the various VOSA people I've asked, you are OK doing this but as I said earlier the police often have different ideas so don't take my word for it. I will carry on towing uncle Eric's 3500kg trailer behind my Landcruiser which can tow a max of 2800kg if I need to and not worry about it.
With a trailer that is not plated they will normally go off the tyre ratings to determine GVW.
Don't you have a seven and a half tonner you could use or have I been dreaming again?

Dreaming. Not me. MGZS 120+ and borrowed trailer.

[Paul D]

My understanding of the actual letter of the law, if you like, is that it's the plated weight of the trailer that counts, not the actual weight. In other words, if you're towing a 3500 kg trailer that weighs 800 kg empty, and your tow vehicle can only legally tow, say, 2000 kg - then you can't tow that trailer even with a packet of crisps on board! Even though common sense tells you that you have 1200 kg of payload to play with.

Sadly, the law is an ass, and it's not renowned for possession of common sense! In the real world, I think it's going to depend on just who pulls you - get some wet behind the ears copper who's out to prove a point and you may have a problem. Not that I reckon many wet behind the ears coppers would have a clue about towing laws! So you may be OK then...

Another common misconception is about what your vehicle can actually tow legally. Many people read the figure in their handbook about towing weights and think that's it, but in most cases manufacturers provide a recommended figure in a handbook - rarely is this the actual maximum legal figure, as manufacturers tend to err on the side of caution.

The important figure to be aware of is the gross train weight or gross combination weight (GTW or GCW) - this is the maximum figure that the entire outfit (vehicle + trailer + contents of both) can weigh and still be legal. From this, you can see that what you can tow is also affected by how much stuff you carry in the tow vehicle - whatever your tow vehicle weighs once you've loaded everything into it comes off your GCW - whatever's left, you can tow (subject to complying with the other rules mentioned already).

At least, that's how I've always interpreted it!

[eddieantifreeze]

Towing is a constant frustration for me.

I have a cat C license which allows me to drive anything rigid, so in practise up to 34tons. Yet I still cannot tow a trailer over 750kg (and the confusing rule about 3500kg thing).

Its a similar cost for me to get C+E as it is to get B+E, yet I still have not had conformation that getting a C+E would also upgrade me to a B+E. Its maddening that it makes no sense and nobody I speak to can confirm it!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by eddieantifreeze

Towing is a constant frustration for me.

I have a cat C license which allows me to drive anything rigid, so in practise up to 34tons. Yet I still cannot tow a trailer over 750kg (and the confusing rule about 3500kg thing).

Its a similar cost for me to get C+E as it is to get B+E, yet I still have not had conformation that getting a C+E would also upgrade me to a B+E. Its maddening that it makes no sense and nobody I speak to can confirm it!

If you can make sense of this page it appears you will automatically get the B+E category if you pass the C+E test. The odd thing is that I have code 107 against the C1E category on my licence which means I can't tow more than 750KG with a 7.5 ton truck, this despite the fact I have a C & CE licence.

[GORDON STREETER]

Move to India Tim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0
I noticed that this candidate had both hands at 9 and 3 o'clock during his marathon test !
What's more concerning is that the pass allows you to drive anything from an elephant to a truck !

[eddieantifreeze]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

If you can make sense of this page it appears you will automatically get the B+E category if you pass the C+E test. The odd thing is that I have code 107 against the C1E category on my licence which means I can't tow more than 750KG with a 7.5 ton truck, this despite the fact I have a C & CE licence.

I have checked with a workmate today with post '97 license, he got his C+E and his upgraded to B+E and C1+E. So to confirm you were correct.....

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by eddieantifreeze

I have checked with a workmate today with post '97 license, he got his C+E and his upgraded to B+E and C1+E. So to confirm you were correct.....

Glad that you have now confirmed it and welcome to 10 Tenths.

[Westysprinter]

so my Peugeot Boxer motorhome and 4 wheel open PRG mini sport with 600Kg Westfield using a licence with all A B C1 D1 restriction 1 and E BB C1 D1Restriction 1....probably needs me to take a test!.....

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Westysprinter

so my Peugeot Boxer motorhome and 4 wheel open PRG mini sport with 600Kg Westfield using a licence with all A B C1 D1 restriction 1 and E BB C1 D1Restriction 1....probably needs me to take a test!.....

Check that the Trailer Gross Weight does not exceed the Towing Capacity of the Towing vehicle as a lot of people do this without even thinking about it, motorhomes/campervans are normally well heavy for a start !
I say this as one who has fell foul of the law on towing weights and only got away with it because the cop didn't do his homework properly

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Westysprinter

so my Peugeot Boxer motorhome and 4 wheel open PRG mini sport with 600Kg Westfield using a licence with all A B C1 D1 restriction 1 and E BB C1 D1Restriction 1....probably needs me to take a test!.....

It looks like you need either a BE or C1E plus your glasses

[Westysprinter]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Check that the Trailer Gross Weight does not exceed the Towing Capacity of the Towing vehicle as a lot of people do this without even thinking about it, motorhomes/campervans are normally well heavy for a start !
I say this as one who has fell foul of the law on towing weights and only got away with it because the cop didn't do his homework properly

the law isn't clear, according to VOSA , its on the plated weight, the national haulage association say its on the handbook capacity. Sold my last motorhome to a guy wanting to tow a Cosworth, I said no chance (even though I was looking at walking away from a 22K deal) and showed him the regs, he said he would go with VOSA and argue the toss...

[Westysprinter]

From the GOV.UK website

Licences held before 1 January 1997

If you passed your car test before 1 January 1997 you are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM.

This is the weight of a vehicle or trailer including the maximum load that can be carried safely when it’s being used on the road.

You also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/d...at-you-can-tow