Should Jordan appeal? - Page 2

type49 · 6 Apr 2003, 21:10 (Ref:560750)

No, rules are rules. Jordon gets great "face" time and sponsor value out of the deal. Second place points are not bad. Eddie gets a little of the needle. Considering the circumstances surrounding the Firman cars retirement, they got a gift.

Suzy · 6 Apr 2003, 21:10 (Ref:560751)

The whole basis of an appeal depends on when the FIA deemed the end of the race to be. That is what Jordan need to establish first - as do McLaren.

It costs money to appeal and you rarely get your appeal fine refunded unless there is a valid reason for the FIA to return your money. I can't remember the exact appeal figure but it's in 5 figures - something like US$10,000 or some other ridiculously-high figure to discourage teams from appealing.

ParkLife · 6 Apr 2003, 21:12 (Ref:560753)

I'm a Jordan fan and as much as I would have loved Fissi to take the win, and even though I think there is a case for appeal I don't think they should.

F1 looked very amateur at the end of this race, and race results being overturned by court cases is not what I want to see. The result has been decided and it should be final. I may not agree with it, and I may not like it, but I would prefer this result to the cynicalness of the result of the 2003 Brazil Grand Prix being decided by legal wranglings in a court.

Yes, Jordan should have been declared the winners, but no they shouldn't appeal over it. Just my opinion.

**Adam43** · 6 Apr 2003, 21:19 (Ref:560765)

No because they'll lose. The rules give the win to Kimi.

FWIW (i.e nothing!) I don't think McClaren would appeal if it was the other way round (judging by what Ron said afterwards).

The best course of action, if any is required, is to get the rule changed so that if this happens again the situation is the other way round.

alfasud · 6 Apr 2003, 21:23 (Ref:560771)

So how would you write these changed rules? Remember, the rules must cover all red flag cases and must be able to provide official timings and places for all cars (running and/or stopped), not just the race leader/winner.

x_dt · 6 Apr 2003, 21:38 (Ref:560797)

I would have preferred Fisichella to win - the fustration is knowing full well that GF will not have anything like as good an opportunity to win a race any time soon.
If ever.
Under normal circumstances Jordan will likely continue to struggle this season.

Though will they appeal?
Probably not - even GF himself is saying 'rules are rules' (see Autosport.com).

**Adam43** · 6 Apr 2003, 21:43 (Ref:560809)

Quote:

Originally posted by alfasud
So how would you write these changed rules? Remember, the rules must cover all red flag cases and must be able to provide official timings and places for all cars (running and/or stopped), not just the race leader/winner.

This is a good point. The extra docked lap, could well be there to provide a fairer situation generally. It is only a problem if there is overtaking on what becomes the last lap. And, let's face it, this is very unlikely.

Fisi and Jordan will have to put this down to bad luck.

Snrub · 6 Apr 2003, 21:45 (Ref:560812)

The rule is not in the spirit of racing. It's arbitrary and unduely punishes Fisi and Jordan. Laws can be ruled unjust as a result of exceptional circumstances. This rule is unjust in these circumstances and violates the higher rules that govern the sport.

Sodemo · 6 Apr 2003, 21:50 (Ref:560830)

If you all taped the race go back and look at the final moments:

Fisi passed Kimi towards the end of the lap, he then crossed the line in 1st place.

Next Webber has his massive accident on the pit straight. We then see cars going all around his debris, in this we see Fisi's car go through the debris and complete its second lap in the lead.
Its only after this happens Alonso crashes heavily and then red flag is flown.

Fisi has passed the finish line twice in the lead.

How can they award the race to Kimi, or have I missed something?

Miss Hardt · 6 Apr 2003, 22:04 (Ref:560860)

Quote:

Originally posted by Reido Rules

To use Ron's words- "there needs to be clarification in the rules."

I said that after England 1988. So, I am smarter than Ron.

Speedworx · 6 Apr 2003, 22:14 (Ref:560874)

Fisi crossed the line as the red came out.

Therefore that lap is not counted. So Kimi is the winner fair and square.

Jordan won't appeal, they are more likely to lose the appeal than win it.

Sodemo · 6 Apr 2003, 22:58 (Ref:560928)

But did he cross the line before or after the red flag came out? Im sure it was before the flag came out...

avsfan733 · 6 Apr 2003, 23:02 (Ref:560930)

The sad thing is that even if they win now it does them a lot less good than if they had been declared winner in the first place

MichaelH · 6 Apr 2003, 23:02 (Ref:560931)

It was before. I'm 100% certain about that. Therefore the race should be awarded to Fisi.

Mekola · 6 Apr 2003, 23:15 (Ref:560938)

On the other hand, Jordan is lucky to finish to have a 2nd in the race. Fisi enter the pits with the engine in fire!!!

MichaelH · 6 Apr 2003, 23:17 (Ref:560939)

on yet another hand....it could have been so much more. The whole weekend was surreal and to be honest more baffling that it was genuinely enjoyable.

A. C. E. motors · 6 Apr 2003, 23:18 (Ref:560941)

I would love to see a Jordan victory, but the rules are in black and white.
The race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car crossed the line at the end of the lap, two laps prior to that during which the signal to stop was given.
So when you see the red flag, go back 2 laps.
I want it to be Fisi, but Kimi wins accourding to the rule book.

blackfalcon · 6 Apr 2003, 23:19 (Ref:560945)

I was thinking the fire in the Jordan was probaly the software self-destructing.

MichaelH · 6 Apr 2003, 23:21 (Ref:560947)

but Fisi crossed the line fractionately before the red flag was shown to end the race. That means two laps back and he had just taken the lead from Kimi and was ahead over the line and thus, the winner of the race.

I think Raikkonen will get the nod whatever Jordan say, so it's probably time to lay this to rest, but the winner was Fisi, not Raikkonen.

Valve Bounce · 7 Apr 2003, 00:23 (Ref:560998)

As Asp pointed out, the rules are very clear. I don't know wht it is two laps before and not one lap before, but if those are the rules then that's the end of that.
Everybody knows that Fisi is the moral victor, but I guess s**t happens. As with all of you, I felt for Fisi also.

Speeddemon555 · 7 Apr 2003, 00:36 (Ref:561008)

What a f**king gip, Fisi deserves that win and those FIA f**k ups screw the whole s**t up by reverting to the original position from two laps before. The FIA should be ashamed of themselves for altering the results.

Logrence · 7 Apr 2003, 00:45 (Ref:561015)

I watched the race again - Fisichella didn't cross the line in the lead before the incident, and anyway - as previously stated, the rules are clear.

Besides - if you think that Fisi was the rightful winner as he crossed the line before the red flag - I assume you think Alonso and Webber should have their positions taken away?

And Fisi was hardly the 'rightful' winner - who knows what would have happened in the last 20-odd laps? Personally I think DC was the deserved winner.

Valve Bounce · 7 Apr 2003, 00:54 (Ref:561024)

Me too. Why wasn't DC the winner? It was 5 am by then and I was very tired as I got up at 2.30 am.

Logrence · 7 Apr 2003, 01:33 (Ref:561050)

Because he pitted the lap before the cut-off.

Valve Bounce · 7 Apr 2003, 01:41 (Ref:561054)

OMIGOD!! maybe I should watch those last few laps again.

View Poll Results: Will EJ appeal?
Yes	57	64.77%
No	31	35.23%
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