Senna or Schumacher

[NiceGuyEddie]

No, had Senna lived, he would have stepped out of the crashed Williams and been 30 points down...

Ok, but even than there would've been 130 points to gain. Senna was leading every race in 1994, so the potential was there.

[krt917]

I think that actually Ayrton and Schuey are uncannily similar in terms of their on-track behaviour, though for different reasons. Actually, Michael hasn't really been penalised for much of late, and neither was Senna. That's why they kept (and keep) on doing it and why driving standards are falling (though there are exceptions).

Sorry about that, back to the thread!.....

[beau]

Originally posted by jmb83

The rules were even changed to stop him and Ferrari winning

Exactly people the FIA/the press all ways punish Schumacher for things

[krt917]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
Ok, but even than there would've been 130 points to gain. Senna was leading every race in 1994, so the potential was there.

Fair enough. Can't deny the potential!

[krt917]

Originally posted by beau
Exactly people the FIA/the press all ways punish Schumacher for things

The press certainly do. Much rubbish is thrown Michael's way. However, on the things that really matter, times where he really should be punished, he usually gets away with it (all his chops, for example).

[Bononi]

It's very hard to say, after all. What I am pointing is that a big scandal would eventually happen, when the illegal TC in the Benettons would be discovered...

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by Bononi
It's very hard to say, after all. What I am pointing is that a big scandal would eventually happen, when the illegal TC in the Benettons would be discovered...

I'm not too sure if the FIA would have had the balls to DQ Schumi for the whole season. They didn't do it to Senna in 1990 or Prost in 1989 did they? Then again, would Senna have threatened to retire if Schumacher wasn't disqualified?

[Bononi]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
I'm not too sure if the FIA would have had the balls to DQ Schumi for the whole season. They didn't do it to Senna in 1990 or Prost in 1989 did they? Then again, would Senna have threatened to retire if Schumacher wasn't disqualified?

That's something we'll never know. Senna was living a critical moment in his life, and his death left many questions in the air.

[Mattracer]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
I think those who say that Senna would have won by a mile are kidding themselves. He hadn't 'won by a mile' in any of the first three races, now had he/ oh, but wait, it's Senna, so we must not criticise. We must not sully the name of the greatest sportsman ever... hang on, that's not right.

Schumacher by a few points, in my view. And Senna wasn't a saint, or a god. Get over it.

Calm down, nobody's sullying the name of Senna. That's not what the thread is actually about.

The debate is "would Senna win the title, even after the 30 point deficit after the first three races." How does that turn into a personal criticism of Senna or Schumacher, for that matter? Get over it? What's to get over? This happened 9 years ago- I think reality has more than settled in now.

My thought is that perhaps you might be a bit dirty because Schumacher won his title without the adversary he really wanted in the game.

[Mattracer]

Originally posted by beau
Exactly people the FIA/the press all ways punish Schumacher for things

His punishments have been a little inconsistent though. After '97, being rubbed out of the WDC doesn't really matter but the WC points tally still stood. Chopping at the start was tolerated but then the one-move ruling was brought in to at least limit this kind of action, knowing that it could not be outlawed completely.

In some instances such as the above, the rules of engagment having been relaxed or subtly modified through the actions of drivers on the circuit. Punishments take many different forms these days, even the team orders thing had to be formally acknowledged then put to bed with a memorandum of understanding under the sporting code.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by Mattracer
After '97, being rubbed out of the WDC doesn't really matter but the WC points tally still stood.

I don't really think the correct punishment for Schumacher should have been to go back and rewrite all the race results. For instance, in both Monaco and Belgium he won brilliantly. And Barrichello in Monaco and Fisichella in Belgium both know that they came 2nd, not 1st. I don't think even they would want to earn their maiden victories some months after they came second in the respective events.

[krt917]

No I agree. You can't rewrite results like that (unless, possibly someone was found to be cheating all the time which Schuey wasn't in '97). I do feel, however, that the penalty was a bit weak. Maybe a ban for the start of '98?

The real crunch would have come if JV had been taken out. Then, I would have given Schuey a points penalty to make sure that his move didn't work.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by krt917
The real crunch would have come if JV had been taken out. Then, I would have given Schuey a points penalty to make sure that his move didn't work.

Yeah, but would the FIA? They didn't do it in 1990 did they? Villeneuve would have done a Mike Tyson on Schumacher if he'd been taken out!

[Mygale]

Senna better indeed .But they are/ were both such fantastic drivers.

[R5 Rocket]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
I think "yes" but maybe only by 1 or 2 points. Imagine how exciting that Adelaide race would have been!


It would probably have even beaten the Hunt V Lauda duel in 1976.

very true u make a good point

[Mattracer]

I know. A "Ralf penalty" would have worked wonders after '97. MS starts the first 3 races of '98 from ten positions behind where he qualified and Rubens gets told to win the race or get fired.

[Aysedasi]

All very entertaining. The only thing that's for sure is that it was a crying shame the two didn't get to race each other for the remainder of 94 and thereafter.

(Of course, I still believe I'm 110% right and I never suggested that Senna was a saint or a god. Much better than that...... )

[bradenc]

I'd to believe that if any of senna, mansell, prost or piquet were racing against TGF, he would have few or no wdc's to his name.

Probably very unfair of me but hey, those are the dirvers i remember fondly. I don't think I will have fond memories of any of the drivers of the past ten years.

So, yes, senna by a country mile.

[Bononi]

I believe that being the champion that TGF is, the co-existence with Senna would be impossible. I mean, one would destroy the other.

[paulzinho]

I agree with every word Aysedasi has to say, pure genius.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by Mattracer
I know. A "Ralf penalty" would have worked wonders after '97. MS starts the first 3 races of '98 from ten positions behind where he qualified and Rubens gets told to win the race or get fired.

Erm, it was Irvine who was in the second Ferrari seat in '98. Rubens was in a Stewart.

[J.McClane]

The way I see it, if Hill had a very good chance of winning the champ in 94, then Senna would have sailed through. Dodgy german "racing tactics" aside mind.

[Mattracer]

Originally posted by Bononi
I believe that being the champion that TGF is, the co-existence with Senna would be impossible. I mean, one would destroy the other.

With Senna being older and having less to prove, one could imagine MS doing a job on him for a few seasons. However, Senna's work ethic would IMO dig even deeper than the much-documented methodical approach of MS.

Added to this Senna's ability to simply drive around or completely ignore fundamental chassis deficiencies ala 1993 vs MS's tactical awareness, endurance, stamina and precision and you'd have a battle to dream of.

I still think that Senna would have reserves of speed and sheer transcendental determination like the reported "out of body" expererience of '88 Monaco that would keep him ahead.

[Bononi]

If F1 was a church, Schumacher would be the pope, and Senna the fanatic

Anonymous

[krt917]

Originally posted by bradenc
I'd to believe that if any of senna, mansell, prost or piquet were racing against TGF, he would have few or no wdc's to his name.

Probably very unfair of me but hey, those are the dirvers i remember fondly. I don't think I will have fond memories of any of the drivers of the past ten years.

So, yes, senna by a country mile.

I must admit that that was an incredible period. However, I think Michael would have been up there with them. He'd already started mixing it with them, remember, and it was pretty obvious that Schuey was going to win a lot of races and titles. Of course, he wouldn't have won so many had Senna, Prost or Mansell been around longer, but he was/is a great too.