What was the worst incident of Bad behaviour in Formula 1?

[freud]

Completely agree with the list of White van Man though I would say that if Michael really did laugh after Senna's death (Many people say so but I havent seen it?)then that would be the worst EVER behaviour...

[White Van Man]

Sorry freud, but I simply refuse to believe that anyone would have found it possible to laugh at Senna's death - even Alain Prost - his sworn enemy - was totally gutted at it.

If you are referring to his and Mika Hakkinen's antics immediately post-race, they were not aware at that time that there had been a second fatality following on from Roland the day before. I cannot remember the precise details as I was out that day and never did get to see the race, but I believe that Senna was still supposed to be alive for at least an hour or two after the end of the race, so there is no way that they would have known.

[crash]

I am by no means a Michael Schumacher fan, but I'd like to say that he did not laugha at Imola 1994. He would not. TGF is quite a nice person (well, normally!).

Look at this picture below. It is Michael Schumacher being told about Senna's death. He is not laughing! (the other driver, incase you are wondering, is Nicola Larini, who stood in for an injured Jean Alesi at the race)



Also, the reason he was happy on the podium is that he did not know Senna was dead. It is like Italy this year. He was celebrating on the podium, then crying in the interviews. No-one told him about the crash till after the Podium.

Also, did they have post-race interviews televised in 1994? If so, what was said at Imola?

By the way, the worst incident of bad-behavior in F1 would have to be at the 1982 San Marino GP. What Didier did was dreadful. Although at least he apoligised.

Have a nice day!

[Cyprian]

Good post crash- never saw that pic before.
Ralfs girl- yes you are right i know completely nothing, I barely have the mental abilty to type these words. "He was'nt looking at his racing" truely brilliant, perhaps you should go to the gravel trap and add your words of wisdom to the conspiracy theory thread.
DONT TAKE EVERYTHING SO SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gt_R]

Look at what people in the past do in F1, it makes our current drivers look tame, current F1 boring, and Schuey's antics plain unspectacular. Ms stuffs are way off to be the worst...i don't even think his doings can qualify as the top 10 worst...

[bringbackslicks]

The most shameful moment in the history of F1? Easy, it was when the FIA did NOTHING about Schumi ramming JV in 97. Scumi had already lost the crown, what the hell was the point of docking him a few points??? I remember Irvine being banned for three races just for being caught up in someone elses accident once!

[Liz]

I think it is far more instructive that TGF was one of the only pilots on the track the day Senna was killed to not attend his funeral.

Even Prost went, although he feared he would be stoned to death.

However, Pironi will always stand alone as the clueless man of the year - how could he have not known what that would do to Gilles, and once he did know, how could he go on lying about it and not even try to make it up? Because he was one of the first of the filthy breed who believe that a win is more important than integrity or even a teammate's life.

[jarama]

IMHO,

Ayrton Senna's on Alain Prost, Suzuka '90 and TGF on Jacques Villeneuve, Jerez '97. In both cases, besides total lack of fair play, were very dangerous moves, weren't they?

[freud]

Thanks White van man & Crash....I always knew Schumi isnt such a bad guy

[bringbackslicks]

What are you talking about? Schumi is pond scum.

[Ralf's Girl]

You're not a fan then...

[Tris]

I am surprised that Pironi was not fired after Imola in 1982! I strongly suspect that quite a number of people did not feel sorry for him in the least after the accident at Hockenheim!

As for Jerez in 1997. In this country right before the official announcement there was a suggestion on one of national radio stations that TGF had been given a two year ban! I think he should have been banned for a season or at the very least four races. If he had succeeded and both he and Jacques went out I wager that the FIA would have not done anything about taking points off TGF!

I do not have a problem with TGF’s driving. I would really like him if he was not so “in” with the FIA. Also I do not care much for his lying with regards to the quality of the cars he has had to drive.

Tris

[LYM]

TGF's act in Jerez is not even the top ten behavior of all time. Not one's injured, JV took the WDC, the damage is minimal. If he was banned , it would have been a worst injustice.

I do not have any worst behaviours in mind, but I thought JV, irvine and DC had obviously ganged up against TGF back in July. I not saying that TGF's driving is always good, but the 3(drivers) against 1 tactics really ****ed me off.

[Gt_R]

When a dog barks at a stranger...neighbouring dogs join in the barking without knowing much about what they are letting themself into!~~
As much as i like Eddie, i thought his comments at that period of time was just for the sake of grabbing some limelight to his poor performance with Jaguar!

[angst]

Originally posted by LYM
TGF's act in Jerez is not even the top ten behavior of all time. Not one's injured, JV took the WDC, the damage is minimal. If he was banned , it would have been a worst injustice.

He deliberately set out to knock an opponent off the track. Do you see nothing wrong with that?

Originally posted by LYM

I do not have any worst behaviours in mind, but I thought JV, irvine and DC had obviously ganged up against TGF back in July.

They 'ganged up' on MS because they found, and no doubt find some of his driving tactics to be unsporting at best and downright dangerous at worst. How can you even begin to compare the complaints of drivers with the deliberate ramming of another F1 car.....?

Gt_R - please enlighten us on the behaviour in the past that makes TGF's actions pale, do you have any specific incidents in mind?

[Tris]

Originally posted by LYM
TGF's act in Jerez is not even the top ten behavior of all time. Not one's injured, JV took the WDC, the damage is minimal. If he was banned , it would have been a worst injustice.

Hi LYM..

Just because TGF was "unsuccessful" in Jerez in 1997 does not mean he was not out of order!

If Jerez 1997 does not make the “top ten” them what does?

Tris

[Gt_R]

Pironi's low move on GV and Senna's actions on Prost at Suzuka are 2 incidents that prevent MS to win the "Worst behavior Ever Award!"...
Perhaps MS has never been the cleanest driver, but he is also not the dirtiest...

[garcia]

I agree with Gt_R, Schumacher wasn't the dirtiest driver. However I do not agree with bringbackslicks. When he says that " the most shameful moment in the history of F1? Easy. it was when the FIA did nothing about Schumi ramming JV in 97". I don't agree with bringbackslicks at all here.
Actually the very same incident with head-banger Villeneuve occured this year in the US GP. Remember when JV tried to overtake Frentzen towards the end of the US GP - that was the exact same manoeuvre he tried in 97 on Schumacher- and all JV got was a red face. Like in Jerez, Villeneuve braked way to late with no chance of ever staying on the track this time Frentzen aware of the crazy Canadian antics from Jerez predicted JV manoeuvre and took the first corner wide to allow the flying idiot to fly past him and off the track. Well done Frentzen you learned how to handle the schoolboy of F1-JV. So Schumacher did not ram JC in 97, quite on the contrary, he took the corner like any normal F1 driver would do but unlike any normal F1 driver JV comes up the inside of Schumacher at about 100kph to fast for the tight corner and uses Schumacher as a brake to slow down otherwise JV would of been off the track like he was in the US GP.

Perhaps the only mistake Schumacher did was not taking the corner wide(like Frentzen did) to allow the flying idiot to go up the inside of him and off the track proving to the world that JV is nothing but a hard man without a tap of class.

So bringbackslicks-perhaps JV is the pondscum. Quite frankly I am getting p?issed off with these names and also the use of TGF. I like Cyprian's idea(pg 1) of changing this one sideness when it comes to shi-tty nicknames - what does TBT (Damon Hill) stand for? I would like to start using this if thats alright with you Cyprian. Perhaps I will follow in your footsteps and start some more nicknames for other HIGHLY TALENTED F1 drivers. Hmmmm lets see, Damon is covered with TBT, now what about Jacque Villeneuve hmmmm- perhaps TCH, what about David Coulthard- TTS- yes thats a good one! So now we have 3 new nicknames and not just TGF (TCH,TTS,and Cyprians TBT) - come on we have to play fair, we all can't be anti- Schumacher!

[angst]

Originally posted by garcia
So Schumacher did not ram JC in 97, quite on the contrary, he took the corner like any normal F1 driver would do but unlike any normal F1 driver JV comes up the inside of Schumacher at about 100kph to fast for the tight corner and uses Schumacher as a brake to slow down otherwise JV would of been off the track like he was in the US GP.

Are we talking about the same incident at Jerez '97? Schumacher took the corner like any normal F1 driver?? Jeez that must be one weird corner, to swerve out, then back in then out again. And Villeneuve charging down the inside and using TGF as a brake? My recollecton is that Villeneuve was alongside TGF and on the outside when the contact took place. The FIA obviously saw something dastardly in the act (yes even they did) as they took away his points for the season (Ooooh that must've hurt ).Denial is a terrible thing.
By the way Gt_R I'll agree with you that Senna on Prost was bad and ranks with TGF on Villeneuve/Hill. As for Pironi.....

[Red]

Another point of view (but of course, everybody knows it can't be true, of course, because... well... that... ahem... you know...it's obvious...)

Originally stated by Michael Schumacher
Villeneuve was on the inside and I tried to close the door where the time for closing it was long gone. I was simply too late. In this moment I didn't think, I simply reacted. My mistake. Man, if only I'd looked into the mirror sooner.

Just want to mention that those three drivers who attacked Schumacher this season were only two: Jacques and David (hmmm...) Eddie did not say something against him. He apologized at Hockenheim (or Hungaroring), explaining him that it's only the media's speculations.

[Dhru]

Garcia, I agree with you completely, the only mistake by MS was that he went off line when JV came up to him. If he had stayed on line, JV would've been blamed for any collision and MS would've been champion. However, I have since learnt that there are very few people who will give him the benefit of the doubt, and although I'm willing to argue 'till I'm blue in the face, there is little chance of getting people to believe it.
But I think that IF it was a dirty move, the FIA's punishment was justified. Senna, Prost and others all managed to get away with their dirty tactics whereas Michael was completly taken out of the Championship. I think the British Media were way out of line saying that
he should have been banned from races the following year. If you could win the WDC at the risk of acouple of races the following year, most people wouldn't be deterred. If you actually look at the first two races of '98, it wouldn't have made a lot of difference to Michael anyway (he only scored four points). The whole thing was blown way out of proportion, just because it was a decisive race and the driver happened to be MS.
Dhru.

[LYM]

Originally posted by angst:

He deliberately set out to knock an opponent off the track. Do you see nothing wrong with that?

That was not a deliberate act. It was obviously a [/b]mistake[/b], MS did not deny it and duely apologised. But that was a instinct. A wrong instinctive judgement. If he really wanted to take JV out, he would do it just like Senna did it with Prost in 1990. And Prost to Senna in 1989. (At this moment I was watching the Jerez replay and question: With MS going for it,did JV honestly think that he could actually cross the corner without landing him and/or MS into the gravel?) If you believe MS deliberately drove into JV then you have to admit that JV was trying as hard to get MS out of the race.

By angst
How can you even begin to compare the complaints of drivers with the deliberate ramming of another F1 car.....?

Those were mouthing offs,not complaints. You don't complain about someone to the world press & TV. You complain to the relevant authorities. What's FIA and GPDA for? Sure they had a meeting with Charlie Whiting, which made the public slaggings of MS even more unnecessary. And what did DC do in the Hungary GP after crying out for the driver codes of conduct? Three wordsot, kettle, black!

Except for team orders, any conspiracies are despicable. I did not tap into their phones, but I do believe that JV and DC had agendas in minds. And going back to Jerez 97 again, both Mika and Dc admitted that they had the chance to overtake JV, but they did not want to jeopardise his championship persue. Now what's that about huh? Sportmanship?!

How does one define an "out of order" act?


PS: Are we gonna continue to use TGF on MS? I find it special, something exclusive to 10 tenths forumers only.

[chow wei hsien]

even though i know that in Jerez 1997, it is MS's mistake in that collision with JV, but i pity him.
just think of this guys, MS lost a golden chance to be Ferrari's champion that year,
he got hammered by the press all over the world.
he was fired by everyone. i mean, just think of his initial feelings, and that particular incident still live with him till today.

if MS became a world champion as a result of that collision in 1997, then i wouldn't mind everyone's criticism on him.

[angst]

Oh c'mon, pulease!!! A mistake?!! What a load of garbage. (by the way, having thought about it Villeneuve was on the inside) He moved toward Vileneuve, turned back away, then in again - he deliberately attempted to ram Villeneuve off the track. Once (Hill Australia '94) could concievably have been viewed as an accident, but to do it twice and then say that on two occasions TGF made a mistake involving his only championship rival overtaking him in the deciding race of the season, but he's a great driver who doesn't make many mistakes - that's not bad timing to make your mistakes at those particularly fortuitous moments. Fair enough if you are a MS fan, but don't blind yourself to what actually happened - I can admit the errors of my favourite drivers (Prost in '89 being an example) and I may even try to make excuses for them in my weaker moments, but I don't pretend that things didn't happen as they did.

[R]

I completely agree with what angst says. Villeneuve was on the inside, and TGF turned his steering wheel and deliberately tried to ram JV off the track. It could be clearly seen from the onboard camera on TGF's car, and what actually happened can not be debated.

Garcia and Dhru - either you didn't watch the race, or you have very selective memories indeed.