Richards, Villenueve and BAR

[BARrouette]

That is true Pollock wanted JV to stay at BAR so they both can make more money...

[Mr V]

Does JV not have a mind of his own then? Agreed that it's Pollocks job to "guide" his client, but at the end of the day it's JV's decision.

JV, and thus, inturn, Pollock, decided to stay at BAR because it earnt them both more money.

If JV had wanted more success, he'd have taken Renault up on their offer.

[BARrouette]

That true and that what JV wanted but Pollock made him change his idea...I dont know what the hell he was thinking...

[Mr V]

Pollock made JV change his mind? The guy who was supposed to be the most outspoken driver in F1? I think not.

[ASCII Man]

Senna was persuaded to do another year with McLaren in 1993 and i don't hear anyone complain about that?

[BARrouette]

Well that is what happend.Pollock invited JV on his boat for 2 weeks...and before JV wanted to leave BAR and after JV said he will stay...Pollock have a big influence on JV decission and i think that it was for the money and nothing else.

[Kirk]

I agree, Pollock has failed miserably but Jacques has (mistakenly) remained faithful to him to date and will likely keep him on. A perfect example of "never mix family/friendship with business".
As for a replacement driver for 2004, Tacku seemed to let the cat out of the bag when it was reported that he proudly announced that he would be racing for BAR in Japan (and then quickly retracted). I'm not sure exactly when that was, but it was well before August. I think DR had contrived a multi-pronged game plan to rid himself of Jacques exactly at that designated time, one of which was to offer him a $1 contract right after the USGP. Seems he has fooled a few people, as his deviousness is rarely mentioned (likely because it involves JV, me thinks).

[jhansen]

I think it's silly to say that JV did not have a part in his own demise. Obviously there were a number of variables involved, but JV does have a portion of the blame. He did sign a five year deal with BAR after all. My one question is if JV hadn't made the mistake of joining BAR to begin with or not leaving with Pollock, then where would he be? The way I see it JV would not have a more impressive record than he does now. There were no seats at Mclaren and Ferrari in 1999 with Mclaren just winning the title and TGF being at Ferrari. He could have stayed with Williams, but he would have been fighting it out in less than thrilling cars in 1999 and 2000. When Pollock left...McLaren, Williams and Ferrari were locked up pretty tight with solid driver pairings. There were not a whole lot of top flight drives out there during this period. I suppose he could have gone to Renault when they took Benetton over, but that would have been a rebuilding year. My point is that maybe JV in any scenario would have just faded away.

And to add, I do not think there was a conspiracy to remove him. His contract was up this year and that's it. If there was a conspiracy to oust him (by DR) it would have played out somehow in 2002.

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by Kirk
I agree, Pollock has failed miserably but Jacques has (mistakenly) remained faithful to him to date and will likely keep him on. A perfect example of "never mix family/friendship with business".

Even though I doubt I would ever place as much trust in anyone as JV did with Mr Pollock, it is clear that Craig did give JV quite a deal of success...

... the original signing with Players Team Green, then on to WilliamsF1, then to BARF1... making his client a lot of money along the way as he picked up the ChampCar World Series and F1 WDC titles.

Yes the circumstances at BARF1 are/were laughable... but considering the driver hadnt made his presence felt on the track for such a long time in a competitive or even motivation sense, what exactly would Mr Pollock have to sell to someone else.

If JV wasnt a champ in these 2 disciplines, would any sponsor/team even give him a 2nd look?? I somehow think not...

[Jordi]

A few points:

-Jacques admitted he gambled to stay at BAR and that he did not talk to other teams. Naive? Like his father. My opinion is that he didn't really believe Richards would not keep him. Or did not want to believe it.

-Why he wanted to stay at BAR? It's not only greed, as you say. Jacques is a man with ideals, and he did not want to give up on BAR so easily. It's a team he helped create, and wouldn't you like to win with the team you've helped start?

-Sato was 6th, good race at Suzuka, but the engine spec was much better. A better spec had been tried at Indy, but the team's gamble (that did not pay off) there put Jacques one lap down almost instantly. So you can't really say Sato is 10 times better than Jacques.

-Jacques was very unlucky. But he admitted that he had been outrun by Button in qualifying. So he doesn't put it all down to Richards and bad luck.

-Conspiracy or not, certainly Richards did not help him.

-My opinion is that Jacques is not done yet, but he needed a change way earlier. After 2001, if it had been possible.

[corkholio]

Originally posted by Jordi
-Jacques admitted he gambled to stay at BAR and that he did not talk to other teams. Naive? Like his father. My opinion is that he didn't really believe Richards would not keep him. Or did not want to believe it.

-Why he wanted to stay at BAR? It's not only greed, as you say. Jacques is a man with ideals, and he did not want to give up on BAR so easily. It's a team he helped create, and wouldn't you like to win with the team you've helped start?

.
.
.

-Conspiracy or not, certainly Richards did not help him.

And once again you find a way to contradict yourself.

Richards came on board in 2002. Those two never pretended to be friends from the beginning. JVil obviously felt he was already getting the short end of the stick from Richards before he was dropped, so why would he be idiotic enough to think that BAR would still be his best option when supposedly every team out there would die to have him?

[jj2728]

personally i'd like nothing more than for jv to take a year away from the f1 circus, maybe do lemans and a few other select races, then return in 2005 with batteries re-charged AND with a competitive team......it may be wishfull thinking on my part, but i'd hate to think that a dismal 2003 was his last in f1....

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Kirk
I agree, Pollock has failed miserably but Jacques has (mistakenly) remained faithful to him to date and will likely keep him on.

Looking at the ammount of money JV has made from BAR, a company set up by Pollock, with JV in mind, i'd say that Pollock hasn't failed at all.

The decision to leave the team (other than being sacked) can only come from the driver, as i said before, the manager can only guide. JV decided to stay, he made a lot of money.

[Kirk]

Well DR seemed to play Craig (and JV) like an old fiddle this year. CP for whatever reason is rumoured to be despised by many in F1 and if that's true it certainly didn't help the cause. As a friend of JV, he should take the initiative to sever the business relationship and hope that it is not too late.

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by Mr V
Does JV not have a mind of his own then? Agreed that it's Pollocks job to "guide" his client, but at the end of the day it's JV's decision.

JV, and thus, inturn, Pollock, decided to stay at BAR because it earnt them both more money.

If JV had wanted more success, he'd have taken Renault up on their offer.

For what it's worth JV has stated in the past that Renault had offered him the same money as BAR, he however chose to stay and see his efforts through. He has also stated that all his decisions are his and his alone. Saying he should have done this or done that is all well and good with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight. The reality however is that he chose to go with a team that looked good on paper, but never fulfilled it's potential.
As for David Richard's, while I don't think he is Satan, I do think he failed to maximise the potential of a very talented driver. Whether he had it in for JV or not, the obvious unrest between the two definitley had a detrimental effect on JV's season. To me JV always looked to be overdriving the car, when it was drivable of course.
It can't give a driver (especially a former WDC) much confidence when your new boss says your overpaid and then trys to ship you off to another racing series. Really poor management skills in my book.

[f1manoz]

Originally posted by Wrex
Is JV responsible for his own undoing?
Were there really different strategies and a conspiracy against JV?
Is Dave Richards really Satan?

1. Who cares!
2. Who cares!
3. Who cares!

OK, now seriously.

1. Yes and no. He certainly should have re-negotiated for a performance-based contract. He didn't help the situation concerning financial aspects. But it did certainly appear that he was getting the rough end of the stick in certain aspects concerning the team.

2. There was no 'conspiracy.' He was just unlucky when it came to reliability. Some have all the luck, some don't.

3. David Richards is an extremely intelligent and practical team owner who IMO will eventually lead BAR (and Honda) to some success.

[freud]

Excellent posts, Manoz & Super Tourer.

Bottom line is that:

- Now that JV is out, BAR can certainly invest more into car development. Certainly JV was not worth the paycheck.
- One Mr. Craig Pollock should get some blame for pathetic handling of JV's contract with BAR and also for destroying JVs chances of a McLaren drive.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by freud
Excellent posts, Manoz & Super Tourer.

Bottom line is that:

- Now that JV is out, BAR can certainly invest more into car development. Certainly JV was not worth the paycheck.
.

Several people who claim to know, say that this is absolutely false as JV's paycheck came from BAT. Merely another spin by DR.

[Wrex]

Canr say I've read that one, but I guess its possible.

I'm still confused by this "DR shafted JV" thing. If not being resigned came as a suprise he would have been the only person on the planet that did'nt see it coming.

They had Button signed for 2004, then they signed Sato on a 3 year deal. Did he think they were running a 3rd car?

Added to this his relationship with DR was already poor and he was clearly on notice that they were not prepared to pay him the money he was used to.

JV's arrogance (and Pollocks stupidity) missed not just the writing on the wall, but the 10 foot neon sign next to it!

IMO, he missed the chance to re-establish himself when he still had a bargaining chip (his huge salary they wanted reduced). Had he agreed to reduce it in return for a 3 year deal (with an option to move on to another team).

He then should have shut the hell up, become a golden PR boy, and done all his talking on track. Had he whipped Button and kept his mouth shut, he would still be in F1 today.

And quiet frankly, while I can understand his anger etc, not racing at Japan was unprofessional and disgraceful. IMO this alone turned anyone that might have been interested off permanently.

[Hazza]

I have one question,
I read somewhere that it said that Williams had allready worked out the BMW deal in 99? *If* that is true, shouldn't Jaque just stayed with Williams (I mean, they don't stay down for long...)

[Wrex]

I think the supply did'nt start until 2000, and JV was already suffering in 98.

BAR had a massive bag of money, his buddy was on board, and the Schumacher-Ferrari combiniation was paying off. Put it all together, why would'nt he do it?

I dont blame him for taking a shot. It was however destined for failure. BAR were not Ferrari, and JV was'nt Michael Schumacher.

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by Wrex
I think the supply did'nt start until 2000, and JV was already suffering in 98.

BAR had a massive bag of money, his buddy was on board, and the Schumacher-Ferrari combiniation was paying off. Put it all together, why would'nt he do it?

I dont blame him for taking a shot. It was however destined for failure. BAR were not Ferrari, and JV was'nt Michael Schumacher.

and to add to that, Pollock wasn't Frank William's and Oastler wasn't Newey.....

[enemy-ace]

...but then Newey wasn't Newey in '98 either, I believe he was Willis.

[Wrex]

Written by Chris Balfe at pitpass.com during his season review.

Most disappointing driver

It would be so easy to say Coulthard, but in fact he didn't disappoint he did exactly as expected. Sadly the driver that disappointed me the most is Jacques Villeneuve.

Forget the 1997 World Championship, when, despite having the best car, he made a right palaver of beating Schumacher in inferior equipment. This is Jacques Villeneuve son of one of the greatest racers I have ever witnessed, heir to a talent of gigantic proportions. Jacques had it all, his father's speed, his raw ability, but also a brain that allowed him to analyse every situation, every possibility rather than simply going hell for leather trying to win every race, every lap.

I blame Craig Pollock for much of Jacques current predicament, but I cannot blame the Scot for everything. Why oh why Jacques did you start that stupid war of words that was only ever going to hurt one person? Why did you allow your arrogance to blind you to what was really happening at BAR? You thought you were being so clever but in reality you were playing into their hands, doing their dirty work for them.

Do us all a favour. Either go away, chill out and count your money.. but don't fall into the Eddie Irvine trap of constantly sniping at your former rivals in the press. Or come back, take a drive, any drive, and prove them wrong.

Sums it up for me.

[neilap]

Originally posted by Wrex
Written by Chris Balfe at pitpass.com during his season review.



Sums it up for me.