Jacques test??

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Teddy, surely the point is we have no facts. This is entirely the problem we have here. As has been said before.
fact (fkt)n. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences.

I am sorry, but I see no facts saying Villeneuve will drive for any F1 team next year, especially Williams.

Facts:

1. Williams will have at least one, most probably two seats available next season.

2. Toyota will have two seats available next season, they have stated to the press that they will feature an entirely new line-up next season.

3. Scott Dixon is, as of today, officially out of the running for a 2005 race seat in F1.

4. Bernie Ecclestone and numerous F1 drivers, past and present, agree that a Villeneuve return is likely and would be beneficial for the sport.

5. Frank Williams has recently stated: "In truth if you are looking for a driver and you want to be confident that he can win races, there is nothing that beats somebody having done it previously.”
This leaves out of the potential pile of available F1 drivers for next season only three: Coultard (12 wins), Jacques Villeneuve (11 wins), and Fisichella (1 win). However I admit Webber is still the most likely to grab ONE of the Williams seats.

6. There have been a rash, and I mean a ton, of Villeneuve-comeback related articles in the past month on nearly all f1-sites and magazines including very credible and reliable sources. Why is this? Where there is smoke there's fire IMO.

7. Villeneuve is a world champion. In case you haven't realised nobody on the grid can say they have beaten Shumi head-to-head for the title as Villeneuve has. If Shumi walks the title again this year, JV will still be the only active driver to have accomplished this task and thus makes his comeback even more likely IMO.

8. Villeneuve hasn't had a decent car to compete with since he won the title. Say what you will about his choices but this is a fact and I know there are many out there who believe that given the car Villeneuve can still beat the best.

9. In every fan based internet poll Villeneuve has won, by incredibly large margins, to be the one that will land a competitive drive next season.

10. Patrick Head has recently admitted to the fact that Williams have had talks with Villenueve and that "anything is possible."

Alright I think that's enough to prove my point. That point being that it is LIKELY (but of course not certain) that Villeneuve will land a Williams or Toyota drive next season.

What I was really angry about was the fact that Liz could make such an unfair statement as to suggest that there is a zero percent chance of a Villeneuve return next season. (As unlikely as a widely-loved dead Canadian rising from the grave actually )

As I have shown, leaving all the rumours aside, just by looking at the facts of next season I think to not give JV at least a 50-50 shot at a comeback is an admission that one is not objectively assessing the situation.

i.e. Can you give me any hard facts that Villeneuve WON'T be driving next season? I think that would be the more difficult task in reality.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by TeddyG
Facts:

1. Williams will have at least one, most probably two seats available next season.

Correct. JV relation to this is mere rumour, like any other driver - see Mika Hakkinen.

Originally posted by TeddyG
2. Toyota will have two seats available next season, they have stated to the press that they will feature an entirely new line-up next season.

I haven't read that, but if there's a link, I would like to know. See the same comment above about JV - rumour.

Originally posted by TeddyG
3. Scott Dixon is, as of today, officially out of the running for a 2005 race seat in F1.

True. Can't see the connection, only with some imagination, with JV.

Originally posted by TeddyG
4. Bernie Ecclestone and numerous F1 drivers, past and present, agree that a Villeneuve return is likely and would be beneficial for the sport.

I agree with that too, but reality is a completely different game.

Originally posted by TeddyG
5. Frank Williams has recently stated: "In truth if you are looking for a driver and you want to be confident that he can win races, there is nothing that beats somebody having done it previously.”
This leaves out of the potential pile of available F1 drivers for next season only three: Coultard (12 wins), Jacques Villeneuve (11 wins), and Fisichella (1 win). However I admit Webber is still the most likely to grab ONE of the Williams seats.

That statement can lead to think that JV would be a good choice, but that no means a requirement for Williams.

Originally posted by TeddyG
6. There have been a rash, and I mean a ton, of Villeneuve-comeback related articles in the past month on nearly all f1-sites and magazines including very credible and reliable sources. Why is this? Where there is smoke there's fire IMO.

I read everyday that Elvis is not really dead...

Originally posted by TeddyG
7. Villeneuve is a world champion. In case you haven't realised nobody on the grid can say they have beaten Shumi head-to-head for the title as Villeneuve has. If Shumi walks the title again this year, JV will still be the only active driver to have accomplished this task and thus makes his comeback even more likely IMO.

In that case, Mika Hakkinen would be a better choice for a come back.

Originally posted by TeddyG
8. Villeneuve hasn't had a decent car to compete with since he won the title. Say what you will about his choices but this is a fact and I know there are many out there who believe that given the car Villeneuve can still beat the best.

God, we have discussed it ad nauseaum. No comment.

Originally posted by TeddyG
9. In every fan based internet poll Villeneuve has won, by incredibly large margins, to be the one that will land a competitive drive next season.

Here too ??? And what that means ?

Originally posted by TeddyG
10. Patrick Head has recently admitted to the fact that Williams have had talks with Villenueve and that "anything is possible."

Yeah, that might be something but still "anything is possible" YES or NO... not fact.

[ralf fan]

in response...

4. Hey Teddy Bernie's he guy who predicted Kimi to be world champ this year... so wouldnt count his predictions for much..

5. he could really mean anyone... he says "confident that the guy can win races"... that could include Kimi,Alonso... or maybe someone in a different series who has shown calm when leading races...

6. the rash of articles have never come from PH or FW themselves... most of them give sources like.. "a person close to Williams"... "un-named source"... and one article said Craig Pollock says he is talking to the "right teams" could be anyone!

7. Williams was much superior in 97 but =well you cant take away the fact that in 97 he was good good driver...

8. that is a matter of opinion

9. again fan site... so what does that have to do with FW's decision?

10.havent seen this on any f1-site...

all in all Teddy... id say there is a possibilty of JV being in an f1 car next year... anything is possible... but the sources claiming this are weak... so i will go with the sources of the articles and not with the number of articles claiming this story...

[shiny side up!]

TeddyG's post is pretty much verbatim what he last posted in the other JV test thread, and Bononi's post is pretty much what I wrote there, too...

Let's give this a rest for awhile, until some OFFICIAL (that means JV, Pollock, or an official voice of Williams F1) says there is going to be a test!!!!!! All these threads are just repeating the same debate over and over...

[TeddyG]

ahhhh there is no hope for you guys...I said these facts point to a POSSIBLE Villeneuve return. I think a 50-50 chance is reasonable. To say there is no chance is just not wanting to admit to reality. By the way, read the first sentence of each of my facts, after that I speculate on what the fact might mean.

In reguards to your Hakkinenn comment, I did say "active" drivers, be fair and try to read more closely. Mika chose to leave the sport and does not desire to return. JV was forced out and desperately wants to drive again.

[Knowlesy]

Going by the available facts (that's FACTS Teddy, not stuff that came off the top of your head) JV has less than a 50-50 chance. There is literally nothing to suggest JV will make a comeback. You may prove me wrong....if you do, good for you. But I don't see it, and just because Williams have a seat available doesn't automatically mean that JV will return. You speak as if Williams had the seat reserved for him for years and were just waiting for him to leave BAR.

Oh no, sorry, he was fired wasn't he?

[Adam43]

Originally posted by knowlesy
Oh no, sorry, he was fired wasn't he?

FACT.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by TeddyG
2. Toyota will have two seats available next season, they have stated to the press that they will feature an entirely new line-up next season.

Since when has this been fact? Speculation in the press at best.

[Bononi]

Well there's always the wish-list for Santa Klaus...

[TeddyG]

[TBSMC]

I admire your resolve Teddy, the JV bashing on this forum is quite something.

[DriverT]

It is not up to us to point out facts against him appearing in a Williams seat. It is up to the press to confirm it. That's the way it works. Until that happens, we cannot believe it.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by TBSMC
I admire your resolve Teddy, the JV bashing on this forum is quite something.

Its a never ending battle against pure ignorance TBSMC...somebody's gotta stick up for what's right.
My point was that it is ignorant to suggest that JV has a zero percent chance of a comeback, as Liz suggested. As much as they don't want to believe what I stated were indeed FACTS but it seems some people are just so terrified of a JV return they block out all forms of rationality...so sad really.

It's also funny how people often say that it is the JV fans who are unwilling to compromise and as a result cause problems on the forum. It's funny because even though I try to compromise with all the evidence that has been shown that there is at least a 50-50 shot that Villenueve may be back in F1, but the JV-bashers must insist that I am insane and that there is no shot for JV!?!?
I think they need to take a long hard look in the mirror and really assess who it is that is uncompromising around here.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by knowlesy
There is literally nothing to suggest JV will make a comeback. You may prove me wrong....if you do, good for you. But I don't see it,

I'm guessing you really don't see much knowlessy, I sincerely hope you request help in crossing any street from now on. I will prove you wrong and you won't hear the end of it when I do matey

[Attila]

Personally, I do not believe that JV is going to race with Williams, because he has personal problems with Patric Head if I heard right. Now that could be just an ugly rumour, but I believe my source. Of course now with the Williams reshuffle, PH's power is less than it used to be, so I am not saying there is no chanece for JV. One thing is sure, I would absolutely love to see JV on the grid next year in a competetive machine. If he was alongside Mika Hakkinen (I know that it is just a stupid rumour and not true) it would be fantastic. Of course I am just daydreaming, which is quite sad because I am having an exam in about 4 hours and should study instead. I don't know when I came up with the idia of an MBA program but it was stupid.

[Led ZeppF1]

Well, the rumour was pick up by F1-live.com.

According to F1-live com, Villeneuve will complete a 50km shakedown for BMW Williams today on the BMW-owned Miramas circuit in the South of France.

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.h...27084657.shtml

[Adam43]

If we're putting figures on it I give it 10% not TeddyG's 50%.
However I will refrain from stating that anyone who disagrees with me is blind.

On this forum people are allowed to have any opinion of on the percentage chance that Villeneuve has of coming back. However if they differ from someone else's it doesn't make them ignorant.

And with the vagueness of the information we have it isn't surprising there is a wide range of views/percentages.

[garcon]

At the risk of repeating myself, I'm... er... going to repeat myself:

So far in the midsts of all this rumour, speculation and outright nonsense, I've only seen one quote that is even close to being a straightforward statement of the current situation. Oddly, it's one that Teddy missed...

Give me something believable that's even half as definite as that and I might take notice.

[Nina]

We will see

[Armco Bender]

I read everyday that Elvis is not really dead...

He's not gonna be making come back either,just like JV...


Well, it's one for the money,
Two for the show,
Three to get ready,
Now go, Jaques, go.

[fast95pony]

TeddyG for MOD !! I've seen several reports on Canadian sports channels that say JV is going to test for Williams. Nothing more,nothing less. But I can wish can't I ??

[Peter Mallett]

Bugger!!! 45 bloody posts and I haven't had a chance to put my positive slant on it. So I'll do it now.

I'm positive that if any of these statements are fact then JV will test a Williams in both places today. It's a big if isn't it?

[dcp2685]

I would put a JV return in a williams at about 33%. They had 4 guys on the "A" list right? Well webber (I would hope would be a shoe in) which leaves 3 people vying for the last seat. 1 / 3 = 33%

[dcp2685]

Plus JV is a much better driver than DC so i would think that JV would be a little higher on the list than DC which would mean JV would be fighting Fisi so there's Teddy's 50%.

[Adam43]

Ah, but there is a chance that they may go for a B list driver, if the right deal or result of a test comes along?