F3, 2005 - news of a signing

[bella]

drivers own websites?

[flexible-flyer]

british f3 has waaaayyy more talent than euro f3. FACT. im blimmin' convinced.

[Gaz]

Yep your right..this season flexible! My concerns relate to next season and beyond!

[Mathias]

You did say the same last season though!

[Mathias]

Originally posted by bella
drivers own websites?

You're always full of sensible good advice, Bella. Stop it.

[Gaz]

This year with everything that happened and everything's thats happening/or not happening as the case may be then there is real room for fear.

I only thought today, not only has Brit F3 all the problems that have been mentioned in the past but I didn't realise just how many drivers where in their 2nd or 3rd years or F3. It is a very, very high proportion compared to usual so the chances of them coming back next year are slim.

[Mathias]

Here's my thoughts on who might be going where (excluding those who've "fuwked" off already...,

Clivio Piccione – 3 years in BF3, so return unlikely, but possible due to form – more likely to seek change of scene
Alvaro Parente – almost certain to return to EuroF3
Danilo Dirani – hasn’t proved himself, reckon he’ll stick with BF3
Andrew Thompson – inside info suggests he’s off to bigger and better things…,
Marco Asmer – obvious candidate for “F2” equiv
Lucas di Grassi – reckon he’ll stick with BF3, especially if Dirani does
James Walker – 2004 was really scholarship class for Walker, he’ll stick with BF3
Rob Austin – possible full-time return to prove his mettle
Mohamed Fairuz Fauzy – still needs to prove himself, but I’d put money on a switch to Jap F3
James Rossiter – obvious candidate for “F2” equiv
Ronayne O'Mahony – needs a 2nd year in BF3
Marcus Marshall – needs a 2nd year in BF3 (if only to prove he CAN win without the weather!)
Will Power – probably give up and go back to kangaroo racing – and good riddance
Danny Watts – obvious “F2” candidate
Adam Carroll – obvious “F2” candidate
Nelson Angelo Piquet – would have thought he’s an obvious “F2” candidate, but he says not!
Stephen Jelley – needs to move up to A-class (and is signed with Menu)
Barton Mawer – needs a full year in BF3
James Winslow – needs a full year in BF3
Lars Sexton – bound to enter, bound not to race!
Vasilije Calasan – I reckon the frenchman will do EuroF3
Adam Langley-Khan – bound to enter and hardly ever race!
Ryan Lewis – gotta be in BF3
Xandinho Negrao – signed with Carlin

That’s pretty much 12 potential drivers, without any graduates from Fs Renault, Ford etc and Euro defectors and the usual crop of SudAms and Aussies.

Looks OK to me.

[bella]

petty thing, but i'd argue with marco asmer. he needs to do a second year more than most..! i'd say most of it depends on whether they can organise a decent set of cost reduction measures.

incidentally, do we believe that the scholarship class is going to take off now there's the plan for a single engine? is it something to do instead of a second frenault year or what?

[Kicking-back]

Scholarship F3 does look like a pretty attractive way for newcomers to get to grips with the formula and potentially for overseas drivers to learn the tracks.

[Emma]

Originally posted by flexible-flyer
british f3 has waaaayyy more talent than euro f3. FACT. im blimmin' convinced.

Right!

[Daisy]

If you look to this years British F3 grid and Euro F3, Euro F3 had a much stronger grid. No doubt their is a lot of talent in Britain (my favourite F3 drivers this year are running in the British F3 series, Carroll and Rossiter), just more in Euro F3. I hope we will see a stronger British F3 grid next year.

[Kicking-back]

I disagree with that.

Jamie Green, Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton were the only people I really rate in EuroF3.

Both series were probably equal talent-wise, rather than either being "much stronger".

[flexible-flyer]

i think the top 6 drivers in euro f3 could compete and sometimes beat the british runners in equal equipment but again, the british guys would be more successful

i rate carroll and rossiter higher than the asm guys. i rate piquet higher than rosberg and hamilton. my opinion of course but i think im safe with that opinion. the marlboro masters had a 1-2 for the euroseries but anyone watching that race could tell that asm as a team and mercedes as an engine was the dominant factor in that success, surely? i dont consider salignon and premat to be better than the 2 guys that finshed behind, not in a million years. euro f3 in 2004 is a much easier championship to win than british f3.

ps, dont flame me for beleiving the british brits are better than the euro brits! i like green and hamilton, alot. green was by far the best driver in the euroseries and hamilton is going great for a rookie, but carroll and rossi = better!

[strider]

Interesting thoughts from Mathias.

I agree with Bella that Asmer needs to stay. Year 2 of Di Grassi and Dirani should be good, especially with Negrao in the mix. I don't think Parente will stay, but he should move up, rather than go back to Euroseries. Fauzy should also stay but will maybe head for GP2 with P1 (and Viso). Rossiter might want to do GP2, but does he have the money? He's the sort who could be poached by a factory-backed Euroseries team. Austin will have a final outing at Brands next month. Calasan will stay but move up to the Championship Class, as will O'Mahony (drove really well at Spa). Agree about Ryan Lewis. Would love to see Mawer do a full season, but the money's tight. Ditto Winslow.

Scholarship has great potential, but then it always has had. It certainly didn't do Paffett, Kerr, Carroll (or Doornbos) any harm.

[Daisy]

Originally posted by Kicking-back


Jamie Green, Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton were the only people I really rate in EuroF3.

How fun that the British F3 always alone rate their guys so high. No doubt about their talents, Green and Hamilton are good, but wat about the other ASM drivers, Salignon and Premat? Both won races, both won the masters, were was Green? And someone like Lapierre, I rate him a lot higher that guys like Piccione and Parente, who are way overrated. Vd Garde and Perera are both kartin champions, last one won the Italian Formula Renault championship last year, a real winner next year, no doubt about that.

But I'm glad we disagree, their must be someone who loves Euro F3 more than British

[Gaz]

Interesting list you've compiled there Mathias...now look down it! Yes you might have 12 possibilities but is there really any quality there? Is there really any real stars on your list, anyone that really looks mapped out to go places? Not really is the answer! The majority of that list is just full of average racers who will do OK but will never set the world on fire! This is my fear for next season and you are clearly mapping it out!

A Ryan Lewis, Stephen Jelley, Vas Calasan battle for next years title hardly compares with the Piquet, Carroll, Rossiter battle of this years does it? And god knows how those lot would fare in the battle against the Euroseries.

We might, just might be able to get quantity next year but the quality...its worrying me!

As for the Brits in Euro and Brit F3 topic I reckon Jamie Green gets the nod on the lot of them...that kid has raw pace and importantly also consistency! As much as I'm a big fan of both Rossiter and Carroll neither has shown any level of consistency this season.

As for Hamilton, I really rate him but its unfair to compare him against Carroll and Green who are in there 2-3 years of F3 and against those mighty ASM factory cars anyone would struggle....

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Gaz

A Ryan Lewis, Stephen Jelley, Vas Calasan battle for next years title

With the best will in the world, Calasan is never going to be battling for the title, regardless of who the competition is.

[littleman]

The Marlboro Masters was a perfect reflection of the Euroseries vs BritF3 debate.The Top Ten consisted of 5 drivers from the Euroseries and 5 from BritF3.Nothing to choose between them in terms of driving talent.Overall,however,the Euroseries does have the edge, due to the circuits used,manufacturer support,championship promotion and supporting race-day programme.The Euroseries also boasts better grids even though it doesn't have a scholarship class.BritF3 would look a little short of cars if we only ran the Championship class.

[Gaz]

K-B - If Stephen Jelley and Ryan Lewis run into each other like they have this year its a possibility!

You get the drift of my point though!

[Mathias]

NO!!! Look at the Euroseries, Gaz, and tell me who out of this year's lot will be racing there next year and why they are any better than the potential BritF3 lot! And if you looked at 2002's BF3 line-up, for example, what would you have thought about the potential for 2003? Who would have thought a boring no-hoper with one flukey win and not a single podium position or even a position close to the front of the grid in qualifying like Alan van der Merwe would be 2003 champion (apart from me)? People are talking about Fauzy moving on to GP2 now, what were they saying about him at the end of last season? Your drift, Gaz, is way off the mark. There's a lot of brilliant talent in there - some in underperforming machinery, some who have been distracted for most of this year by other things (like school/college in the case of O'Mahony and Jelley), some who just don't have the experience/racecraft yet. Next year is a whole new year, and I reckon you'll be surprised.

[Gaz]

I wished I shared your optimism Mathias but I don't! For althugh VDM may have not had a great 2002, he had won a race and had won the Formula Ford Festival in 2001.

Jelley and O Mahony have done nothing, never have, never will!

Look at the Euroseries, yes, thats where all the decent talent in the junior formulae here will go! If you want a decent grid next year you need a Conway, Di Resta, Rossiter etc but they will be either snapped up by the Euroseries or will be off to GP2.

Di Grassi's a driver you mention as staying - I severly doubt it as the RDD programme won't have anything to do with the UK next year.

I'd love to share your optimism Mathias, but I've been watching the Renault, BMW, Ford and F3 guys for many seasons now and I can tell you that the drivers you name and are counting on are nothing more than average!

To some people's tastes just seeing a decent scrap between average racers for the title may be up their street. But myself I want to see a decent scrap but between drivers you can see are going places with their careers. O Mahony, Jelley, Fauzy and co will only go as far as their money will take them and certainly won't be stood on the top step of any major international series podiums...unless the competition doesn't turn up!

[bella]

hang on a minute, i'm going to defend ronayne o'mahony from your torrent of abuse here. he's hardly got any racing experience, and he's been improving a lot all year! if he had the same amount of testing and experience as someone like ryan lewis has had then i'm fairly certain he'd be doing much better.

[Gaz]

Well I know your a big Ronanyne O Mahony fan Bella but lets be fair, he aint no Jamie Green, Adam Carroll, James Rossiter, Robbie Kerr is he?

I think its just an honest, fair reflection that he's an average racer. I'm not saying he's **** and I'm not abusing him as you put it, its just my honest opinion of him!

And I'm not a big fan of Ryan Lewis either, he's just won a very average class championship this year.

The quality of the Scholarship Class has been weak this year - If it has been last year when the likes of Kane, Viso and Chandhok where contesting he wouldn't have had a look in in my opinion.

[bella]

i think it's unfair that you're judging someone with a completely different level of experience against people like ryan lewis who do drive racing/very fast cars pretty much every day in the summer, that's all.

scholarship's a bit wierd this year though. it's a great way of learning f3, but then you get someone like ryan who throws everything including the kitchen sink at it and he can't *not* win.

re: the rest of scholarship. jelley, i've not seen any evidence that he's at the same level as one of the front running drivers either. and vas... nuff said. i don't think barton mawer had the money to throw at a decent drive so it's difficult to judge him.

[Kicking-back]

Gaz, you're obviously a difficult man to impress.

The truth is that no-one knows how many cars will be on the British F3 grid next year or who will be in them.

But negativity breeds negativity - it's far better to stay positive rather than expect the worst all the time.