Are V8 Supercars the future?

[npperk]

You can look at it from another perspective.

If you get other makers (Nissan/Renault, Toyota, Mitsubishi, etc) racing in a top-line series with the "australian" makes, it promotes these car companies.

Now if they have a reason to have a nice big factory out here because they are selling massive numbers of cars (assuming that they would build some here) then that's a good thing for motorsport in general.

Who knows...

[cavvy]

Originally posted by Robert Ryan
I cannot seeing it changing . It is building on an extablished formula like any other Sport...............

The dissenters, who mainly inhabit motorsport forum message boards, can go and put their money where their mouths are and start their own"Dream" Touring Car series.

Robert,
Occupying my position with the dissenters aka dreamers, perhaps your position is a tad simplistic: Tourers have been popular back to 50s & 60s that I remember... Bruce McLaren in a Mini Cooper at Caversham... from my home in Melbourne these days fellow enthusiasts assure me FJs were popular not to mention Customlines ....
Coch0 & Co took over Aussie Touring Car racing with what is commercially very successful, no debate, but the current formula with its licences locks others out: again commercially very successful, but we dreamers are aware of the lock out & see the likes of Toyota, BMW et al as being unlikely to want to buy their way in*, and don't like it. Why would Holden & Ford allow them in? Again we dreamers lose.
Not happy Jan (or Robert)!

* Larry Perkins would seem to believe the current value of licences made them worth selling.

[bartman71]

Originally posted by Venom XR
Due to the fact they sell a lot of commerical vehicles.

i think you will find Toyota sell more vehicles to families and individauls then Ford and Holden.
they sell most of their vehicles to fleet companies.
Dad tried to get a new Camry for work but was told it had to be a Ford or Holden because thats all the company brought even tho the Camry was going to be cheaper and hold it's value better.
mum was in the same boat a year ago.

[brighter]

REMEMBER those boring days before V8 supercars, 4 cylinder 2 litre junk that nobody came to watch? You want those bad old days back? Only the Thunderdome wpould benefit a revival of the NASCARs and AUSCARs.
Aussies love V8 racing forget the rest.

[D.R.T.]

Originally posted by brighter
REMEMBER those boring days before V8 supercars, 4 cylinder 2 litre junk that nobody came to watch? You want those bad old days back?

What bad old days ?? Also, they certainly weren't boring.

I know the boring days we have now with v8's.

There were plenty of people who came to races. Just as many that come to races these days, if not more in some cases.

The late 80's were a great time for Australian motorsport

[Robert Ryan]

Cavvy,
You already have a catergory, that fits that need rather nicely :GTP. Make sure you
and other "Dreamers" on this board, do something practical and support it. We had a thriving alternative to V8Supercars PROCAR. Unfortunately it survived as a result of its benefactor Ross Palmer's Lagesse. GTP can surivive and grow it just needs proper management and an infusion of new models.
Australia can afford to have TWO well run Professional roadracing sedan series. GTP will never become as big as V8Supercar , but it provides a very different alternative.

[brighter]

A simple quote:
"Until October 1997, many pundits were uncertain which of the nation's two touring car categories - 5-litre or 2-litre - would capture the hearts of fans.

But race fans voted with their feet and flocked to the new Australian 1000 Classic, having stayed away in droves from the Super Touring event two weeks earlier.

The TV ratings for the telecasts of the two races were equally conclusive."
If V8s are boring, why do the record crowds continue to grow?
(Source:http://www.v8x.com.au/cms/A_30196/article.html)

[Just Do It!]

That sure tells it. V8 Supercars and motorsport are the Number 3 sport in Australia.

No other sporting category has grown as fast, brought a strength with, and for that we have to be grateful.

The saddest part is that a few sit around with heads in orifices not designed for it and dream of their own little ideal world.

Corporate Australia, and to a lesser extent New Zealand, have shown where their loyalties lie and the sad departure of Procar was evidence enough for all of us to wake up and realise.

What's more, and probably what matters the most, is the crowds that V8 Supercars have brought to race tracks around Australasia - yes, despite what some say, the NZ V8 Touring Car Class has been bolstered and grown on the back of the V8 Supercar Series. When did a crowd of more than 50,000 last attend a race meeting at Pukekohe prior to the V8 Supercars?

The fans have spoken the loudest and look at what we have now. Wouldn't it a treat to see those who kick and knock turn the negative energy into something positive and constructive for the betterment and further growth of our fantastic sport. We'll keep wishing!

[npperk]

Originally posted by brighter
A simple quote:
"Until October 1997, many pundits were uncertain which of the nation's two touring car categories - 5-litre or 2-litre - would capture the hearts of fans.

But race fans voted with their feet and flocked to the new Australian 1000 Classic, having stayed away in droves from the Super Touring event two weeks earlier.

The TV ratings for the telecasts of the two races were equally conclusive."
If V8s are boring, why do the record crowds continue to grow?
(Source:http://www.v8x.com.au/cms/A_30196/article.html)

Sure, that's 1997. The point is that it was on the way up from 1997 up to where it is today - the top (debatable) of oz touring car motorsport.

But what about in 5 years from now? What about in 2 years from now? Who says that a new, better formula won't come out next year or the year after? It's happened before and could (more than likely will) happen again...

[Robert Ryan]

npperk,
What has that got to do with it? Sorry but all catergories evolve or die, there maybe a new formula for V8Supercars in the future, look how NASCAR has evolved over 50yrs.

[Mattracer]

I think ST was being got at not Group A but anyway. ST was running whilst the V8 category was going in the mid-nineties.

DRT, almost certainly a fair percentage of those same people who went to the ATCC (Group A) in the late '80s still attend V8 Supercar rounds nowadays.

[racer69]

How many people are going to fork out $3 million dollars for licences in the future? What happens when current owners lose sponsorship, can't race but at the same time can't find a buyer?

How many teams are going to be able to afford 2 cars per driver (of the same spec) for Cochrane's overseas wet dream?

Who says other manufacturers won't be successful to the average fans if they aren't in the main series? Any comparison with Australian Super Touring and Procar is irrelevant, as, with the help of AVESCO, they were portrayed to the public as second string to V8Supercars.

[Robert Ryan]

racer69 it is not irrelevant. Structural changes ( costs, sponsorships, franchises) are constantly being reviewed and changed.
The point is at this time the series is growing very strongly and to change that basic formula for the want of change, would be very bad management. Cochrane did indicate he would consider another manufacturer, but it is like all his "out of left field" announcements , something to stir the fans up and get some sort of reaction. He loves doing that to get an idea what the silent majority think.
The relevance of PROCAR to the general racing public(I will leave Super Touring out this as it has been done to death) depended a lot on the organisation running it. You make your own success, to blame another racing organisation for your failings is absurd.

[mixxer]

"You make your own success, to blame another racing organisation for your failings is absurd."

So true

[Just Do It!]

Exactly Robert and Mixxer and to think that some people are still so blind to think that the public don't want to see V8 Supercars.

How dumb is that?

[pete55]

I find it interesting that magazines such as V8X and the armchair guide to V8 Supercars sit in aplenty on newsagent shelves. Either they get too many in or they don't sell. If V8 Supercars are so popular why can't they sell these mags and AA etc. in bigger numbers.
As for V8 Supercars claming 'X' number of spectators, well the figures they use (the total meet number) give an impression that there are many more people attending than really are. On top of that the only meetings that draw big crowds are Indy, Adelaide, Bathurst and the GP meet. The same applies to television ratings, these meetings have a fair number of viewers but do the other rounds.
Overall what i am saying is 'Are V8 Supercars as popular as some are making out?'.

[mixxer]

Have a read of Motor Mouth in MN 295 for an answer to that one Pete, the last sentence says it all.

Yes Pete55 they are - perhaps even more so.

To the question about mags on shelves - A vast majority of V8 fans don't know or care about the rest of the sport. They are not motor sport fanatics and V8s is their only interest.

These are the people that attend the street circuits, and Bathurst - 'cause its bringing the game to the people rather than enticing the people to the game.

How often has Eastern Creek failed to live up to its expectations? Since its inception - and there is nothing wrong with EC. Their last throw at a motor cycle GP drew a bit over 30 thousand whereas Phillip Island lured almost four times that.

EC and Oran Park figured poorly when compared with round figures overall. Yet put a race on around the Rocks and the crowd would be huge.

[pete55]

I doubt that the V8's would pull in the same crowd at the Gold Coast if the Champ Cars weren't there. For a start there would only need to be a 3 day meet not 4 ( and AVESCO use total crowd figures ) as there currently is and there would be no overseas visitors there. The whole reason the Gold Coast got the Champ Cars were that it was promoting the Gold Coast to the Americans.
As for bringing the people to the game; you don't see football or cricket played in the streets. They have purpose built stadiums and plenty of people go to them. The same applies to horse racing, they have purpose built tracks. The other thing about street circuits is that they are not spectator friendly so why do people go to them. It certainly isn't totally for watching the cars go around.

[mixxer]

Hope I dont over step any boundry's but If I may quote in part what Chris Lambden said in MN 295
"Tony Cochrane may well have been (as he often is) a bit premature when he claimed a couple of years back that V8 Supercars were ready to take over as the primary show, but that is now certainly the case. Contractual obligations aside, we concluded that the Indy promoters could save themselves the millions they pay the Champ Car boys and still pull just as big a crowd"

[Robert Ryan]

Peter55 the bulk of the people turning up to Indy were from Interstate not overseas. As Adelaide has proved once the Openwheelers disappear the Sedans thrive,

[pete55]

The way V8 Supercars have destroyed other classes of Motorsport there won't be much else to run at Adelaide next year. I don't think the program will be anywhere near as good next year.

[pete55]

I doubt very much if the bulk of the people turning up at Indy were from interstate either. They were locals mainly (meaning from within a couple of hundred k's). That aside the money spent by the Government to run Indy was for the purpose of attracting overseas visitors. If Champ Cars aren't there i can't see that money being available for long and that's where TC gets his easy money from.

[D.R.T.]

Originally posted by pete55

Overall what i am saying is 'Are V8 Supercars as popular as some are making out?'.

That is a very valid point and personally, I know its different to what, but V8 Supercar isnt as popular as Avesco/Channel 10 makes out. But hey thats their job.

The avesco and channel 10 Pro da begun with its with painitng an image of telling the public of how dark and gloomy pre 97 was. When infact they werent so bad at all.

Since then if you believe Avesco they have grown track attendances by 25 % each season. Which certainly isn't the case. Avesco invented the 3 day crowd and started comparing this to previous track records.
I can remember also in the late 90's, Avesco used the counting feet method. I'm not saying they were the only ones, but they DID do it.

Something that is built on lies will eventually fall, when that happens what will the state of Aus motorsport be left in.

[mixxer]

Riddle me this DRT which (in your view) has been the most popular motorsport class in Aus over the last 10 yrs ?

oops forgot the brackets