Car makers are not in the motorsport business

[foreversideways]

No company can afford to take a thrashing year in and year out. So something has to give in the end. Also anybody who buys a road car based on F1 success is just plain stupid.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by foreversideways

Also anybody who buys a road car based on F1 success is just plain stupid.

Exactly,the last time i went past my local Renault dealer (it's still there) there wasn't a queue forming outside.Do the big bosses at Toyota and the like, really believe what their marketing people tell them?

[BootsOntheSide]

It's not inconceivable that the 2008 grid will have Ferrari, Honda, McLaren-Mercedes, BMW-Sauber, the 2 Red Bull teams, Midland, Super Aguri, Prodrive, Penske and perhaps more private teams, which could prove interesting. As another angle on this question, have Ferrari and Honda sales suffered for their teams' poorer performances this year?

[JeremySmith]

I doubt if Ferrari or Honda sales have suffered one iota Boots.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I doubt if Ferrari or Honda sales have suffered one iota Boots.

Their bank balances certainly did.

[Sodemo]

I guess these lack of Renault sales in Spain can only be attributed to one thing, the Spanish don't like Renault cars.
If you make ugly cars, or cars people just plain don't like, no matter how many times you win races, its not going to make those people buy your cars.

In the UK we aren't terribly nationalistic about what cars we drive, you go to italy, and you see a lot more Fiat's & Alfa-Romeos, the same with France, lots of Citroens and Renaults, I haven't been to Germany recently so I can't comment on wether there are an overabundance of Wolkswagens and BMWs.
Aside from seeing more Rovers around Birmingham than other parts of the country, there aren't many "British" cars around, however I suppose this has something to do with the fact that Britain no longer produces (m)any "British" brand cars in vast volumes.

[WebberForWDC]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Ahhh well maybe if Renault didn't make such god-awful looking road cars then maybe they might get a sale or two! I don't know a single person who drives a Renault road car - nor do I know anyone who has a remote interest in one. It's all very well clinching F1 titles but if half the populations are in two minds as to weather or not the road cars are butt-ugly, well the F1 campaign becomes a little pointless...

Damn straight.

As for Toyota... they feel that they are and probably are the greatest in the world and will help prove that with F1.

In Aussie without Export discounts that Toyota & Holden have to use on their Corolla and Astra imports, Volkswagens, Renaults and Citreons are considerably more expensive and marketed as fancy "European" cars. My understanding is that in Europe VWs, Renault & Citreon are similar to Toyota, Ford and Opel in Europe.. true? So this Aussie market ploy is a major rip-off for silly customers who want a French car because they think it's better quality than a Corolla.

[WebberForWDC]

similar in price and specification that is...

& not so much better quality but they feel the Renault, Citreon or VW is a *cough* premium *cough* car.

[WebberForWDC]

Originally Posted by foreversideways

No company can afford to take a thrashing year in and year out. So something has to give in the end. Also anybody who buys a road car based on F1 success is just plain stupid.

It's always better to have a winning (and especially a crush the opposition and turn them to pulp) image than to not though? Even it just gets buckets of mercho out the door to majorly offset the cost of the F1 programme, to the point where the contributions from the factory can be cut to a point where the programme makes financial sense.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Their bank balances certainly did.

Yes but we are talking about car sales Martyn..

[Jaxs]

The global financial situation for car sales is grim. The largest, GM and Ford are having problems in the states and when the board of Directors met it won't be for just a look at the US sales figures.

Unless returns in F1 are converted to car sales all the manufacturers will seriously consider the amount of investment. Ferrari are considering a shares sell off to generate monies, this would preclude any large payments to drivers and indicate a belt tightening operation within the F1 operation.

Renaults involvement with Nissan, the downturn in Japanese finace all contribute to a reduction in motor sport. The enforcced reduction within the European circuits of tobacco advertising is already indicating that circuits need to revise and reorganise the number of races, Hochenhiem and Nurbergring to share, the future of Spa all contribute to a reductions in investments.

B.E., for all his supposed faults, has been arguing for a reduction in drivers fees, the movement to Asian tracks where tobacco advertising is still allowed to maintain the flow of cash into F1.

There are a lot of indicators as to the diminishing returns from F1 and all the participants are more than aware of the need to stabilise their positions.

All a matter of wait and see. hardly, too much at risk and too many people with fingers in the pie to allow the whole thing to slide away. The major players need to control their own destiny and that will have the greatest effect and could see a rationalisation of the whole sport.

[pole2pole]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

When a lot of car manufacturers all own outright teams in a series, it's only a matter of time before some of them get fed up and take their budgets elsewhere.

I totally agree. I remember an interview a couple of years ago with Paul Stodart and that was one of the points that he was pressing on. When the giants of the car industry are running the teams within f1 then there has to be decisions made at company board meetings on there finical position in relation to the sport. Loyalty goes right out the window instead its facts and figures that are on the table. Engine manufactures have left the sport before but this time round its teams that would be dropping out.