Can you do your harness up with you crash helmet and/or HANS device on? - Page 2

StephenRae · 3 Oct 2006, 08:15 (Ref:1726022)

I think to try to do the 'driver change' on your own is pure folly...what happens if, in the heat of the moment you don't plug in one of your shoulder belts, or lose a glove, the temptation to carry on regardless will be too much.
I often go racing on my own and have never had any trouble finding someone to strap me in or do the odd adjustment. If I were you I would find someone in one of the other races or better still one of your competitors to help. Good luck!

**Tim Falce** · 3 Oct 2006, 08:27 (Ref:1726035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

I'll be all on my todd and doing both stints. The rules will be that at the pitstop drivers doing the race by themselves must get out the driver door, run round the car, and get back in the driver door. Seems simple enough.... but that means I won't have another driver to help me back in. I also don't have anyone with me for this meeting, so I'm going to have to get strapped back in by myself.

I'll be there Ken and we have some guests coming as well (racers) who will be on hand to help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

Interesting advice. Suze... (actually I'm completely by myself) the bit of me that wants to win this race (and if I don't make any silly mistakes then that's a serious possiblity) agrees with you. And the extra time to sort out my belts and HANS could well cost me the win.

But.... the bit of me that bought the HANS device in the first place agrees with Sheila.

As we want to win as well we must make sure it's fitted properly and you are comfy and settled before you move off, it could take us a few minutes.

Al Weyman · 3 Oct 2006, 08:42 (Ref:1726047)

I think a rule like that is madness i.e. to make you undo all your racing safety equipment and run around the car then as quick as you can get yourself back in and try to put everything back on in the quickest amount of time harks back to the old days of LeMans starts with drivers struggling to adjust their belts halfway down the Mulsanne. Why can't they simply take an average time and hold you there for that period. I wonder what will happen if someone gets hurt bad as a result of not buckling in properly, be intresting won't it. I personally would not be able to do it with out help and I dont use Hans.

**Tim Falce** · 3 Oct 2006, 09:03 (Ref:1726080)

Al, This rule cost me a class win and possible second place last year at Brands. I did my pit stop quite late in the race and found that old age had crept up and as I got out I got cramp in both legs and couldn't move for a few seconds.
I think it should be a stationary period in the car, in dtype38's case about 5 minutes

Seroiusly though maybe 30seconds.

JimW · 3 Oct 2006, 09:31 (Ref:1726129)

I don't really spot the logic of posts which suggest that solo driver changes are too dangerous to be permitted. They raise exactly the same issues as two drivers swopping over (possibly fewer as there is no question of differently sized drivers and seat adjustments etc.)

OK, you could argue that races with driver changes are too dangerous if you think that.

When organisers are trying to boost opportunities for double drives (shared costs, added interest for those who actually like that sort of thing, spectator interest ditto) the only possible fair way is to get the solo driver out of the car and back in.

Regards

Jim

carsten.meurer · 3 Oct 2006, 11:31 (Ref:1726258)

this scenario was actually one i brought up in the hans thread !

not doing it up properly is potentially dangerous !

now as we seem to try and make it all as safe as possible, i would suggest
to get some teams with all possible safety equipement to perform timed
driver changes. then a sensible time which does not allow for coffe and cake, but does not put you in a dangerous rush either is the mandatory standstilll
time. if you want to change drivers you can do so in a safe way, if not
you stay in the car, engine switched off.

time for being stationary, plus pitlane travel extra must be visible on lapchart.
so not every car has to be timed. maybe even a two lap overall time including
the standstill. that could be timed from inside the car.

surely putting pressure on people puttinng on complicated gear is going back
to old le mans days ! we should know better by now !

Al Weyman · 3 Oct 2006, 12:13 (Ref:1726306)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimW

I don't really spot the logic of posts which suggest that solo driver changes are too dangerous to be permitted. They raise exactly the same issues as two drivers swopping over (possibly fewer as there is no question of differently sized drivers and seat adjustments etc.)

OK, you could argue that races with driver changes are too dangerous if you think that.

When organisers are trying to boost opportunities for double drives (shared costs, added interest for those who actually like that sort of thing, spectator interest ditto) the only possible fair way is to get the solo driver out of the car and back in.

Regards

Jim

I don't think the suggestion that they should not happen was made, just that Dtype has no help presumably with a driver change the guys help each other.

JimW · 3 Oct 2006, 12:21 (Ref:1726315)

Yes, of course DType should have some help.

(I'd volunteer if I was not already booked elsewhere.)

Jim

**dtype38** · 3 Oct 2006, 16:27 (Ref:1726549)

Ok, good suggestion on getting help, so who would you approach? Obviously Falcemob and Uncle E are a lovely pair of blokes. I trust them completely... except when it comes to being in the same race as me. One of them would probably help me do my belts up nice and slowly to give the other one time to let all my tyres down! I guess I would have to say the same would apply to anyone else in my race. After all, this isn't a knitting circle, its motor racing!

So would you pick any muppet standing around to help you do up your safety gear properly?

Sheila M · 3 Oct 2006, 17:36 (Ref:1726730)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

Ok, good suggestion on getting help, so who would you approach? Obviously Falcemob and Uncle E are a lovely pair of blokes. I trust them completely... except when it comes to being in the same race as me. One of them would probably help me do my belts up nice and slowly to give the other one time to let all my tyres down! I guess I would have to say the same would apply to anyone else in my race. After all, this isn't a knitting circle, its motor racing!

So would you pick any muppet standing around to help you do up your safety gear properly?

I'm assuming that you are one of Julius's boys? Can't he ask someone to assist?

Failing that, if it's really going to cause you a problem, speak to the Scrutineers and Pit Marshals and get one of them to help you.

ss_collins · 3 Oct 2006, 18:11 (Ref:1726787)

d-type - with my safety I would prefer to have someone I trust doing it - I'm not saying randoms aint capable - just I'd rather not have to circulate wondering whether its all correct.

**Tim Falce** · 3 Oct 2006, 19:40 (Ref:1726873)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

Ok, good suggestion on getting help, so who would you approach? Obviously Falcemob and Uncle E are a lovely pair of blokes. I trust them completely... except when it comes to being in the same race as me. One of them would probably help me do my belts up nice and slowly to give the other one time to let all my tyres down! I guess I would have to say the same would apply to anyone else in my race. After all, this isn't a knitting circle, its motor racing!

I did post earlier with a smiley but if you think we would seriously consider hindering you then I do hope you can find someone sensible to help you.

Red Baron · 3 Oct 2006, 19:40 (Ref:1726875)

This probably wouldn't be a problem for you though would it Sam; you don't tighten your seatbelts up anyway (see 'how tight are you' thread)

Rosie

ss_collins · 3 Oct 2006, 21:48 (Ref:1726979)

funny thing when I had the spanners do them up properly tight in the Panoz, by lap three I was leaning forward in the car... guess I pulled them with my shoulders

**dtype38** · 3 Oct 2006, 22:01 (Ref:1726990)

'Fraid I don't know a Julius, Sheila.

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcemob

I did post earlier with a smiley but if you think we would seriously consider hindering you then I do hope you can find someone sensible to help you.

I know you posted with a smiley. I'm sure you'd smile very warmly while you were letting my tyres down!

Seriously though, you'll have enough to worry about with your own driver change. If I accidentally come into the pits just before or just after you, you might not actually be in a position to help. I'd rather let you concentrate on your own race and not have me to worry about as well.

Sheila M · 3 Oct 2006, 22:24 (Ref:1727001)

[QUOTE=dtype38]'Fraid I don't know a Julius, Sheila. /QUOTE]

Are you not with Julius Thurgood and the Cloth Cap and Top Hat lads?

Suze · 3 Oct 2006, 22:28 (Ref:1727002)

See Sam was cos it was the Panoz guys and not me!

I think you need to find someone, dtype! Bribe with cake or something!

StephenRae · 4 Oct 2006, 08:53 (Ref:1727302)

I think you are mixing with the wrong type of people, this situation wouldn't arise in FF1600 but on one notable occasion I came into the pits with deranged rear suspension and my competitors pit crews got me out for the restart...I have never been short of help when needed...it may be motor racing but it is still a sport...isn't it?

**Tim Falce** · 4 Oct 2006, 11:21 (Ref:1727494)

[QUOTE=Sheila M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

'Fraid I don't know a Julius, Sheila. /QUOTE]

Are you not with Julius Thurgood and the Cloth Cap and Top Hat lads?

He was with me Sheila

**dtype38** · 4 Oct 2006, 18:23 (Ref:1727901)

Quote:

Originally Posted by StephenRae

it may be motor racing but it is still a sport...isn't it?

Yes it is, and you're quite right that there are lots of people in the paddock who would help out if I needed to fix something or needed a spare part. But I'm not sure that's quite the same as relying one someone to do my harness up correctly in a situation where I need them to do it quicker than I could by taking my helmet off and doing it myself.

Sheila, nope, no hats, top or cloth variety. The folks I hang out with are more your boiler suit and oily hand brigade

**dtype38** · 4 Oct 2006, 18:44 (Ref:1727929)

OK, back to the main subject... the concensus seems to be that single drivers having run round the car isn't ideal from a safety point of view. But given we have to do it I've made a few decision helped by advice so far. First, I'm gonna use my HANS device. Second, if possible I'll find some help to redo my harnesses during my stop, but I need to plan for doing it myself just in case. Also, I need to drive into the pits, stop and turn the engine off before I do anything.

So, drive in, stop, switch off... then:

Pull gloves and wedge in dash board where I can see them.
Pull steering wheel and hang on gear stick.
Loosen shoulder straps and pop belt buckle.
Lay lap straps and shoulder straps out where I can reach them.
Stand on seat, hop over door, run round car.
Step over door, slide down and settle into seat.
Do up lap and crotch straps.
Fish shoulder straps over hans device and lock into buckle and pull tight.
Refit Steering wheel and put on gloves.
Start engine and blat off (err I mean calmly drive) down pit lane.

So where is it all going to go wrong? How many times should I practice this in the paddock and during my 30 min practice session? What sort of time would be a good time to do it all correctly?

I'm doomed

Eddy V · 4 Oct 2006, 19:42 (Ref:1727975)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

...Lay lap straps and shoulder straps out where I can reach them.

Depending on what sort of seat you have: put some velcro strips on your belts to stick them to the seat when you undo them.
We have done this before and it worked.
Practice at home a few times.

Al Weyman · 4 Oct 2006, 19:46 (Ref:1727979)

Is that what the velcro bits on my belts are for I wonder?

Eddy V · 4 Oct 2006, 19:50 (Ref:1727982)

Could be Al, who put them there?

**dtype38** · 4 Oct 2006, 19:59 (Ref:1727995)

What an excellent idea

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