British F3 Donington - Page 2

**bella** · 23 Apr 2007, 12:18 (Ref:1898505)

i see your point about the racing experience thing (well, in amongst the ronspeak i think that's what you were trying to say), but i still think hohenthal has shown the might of the mansells up. if they wanted to learn on their own terms, they should have done national class.

Gaz · 23 Apr 2007, 12:26 (Ref:1898510)

I'd hardly say he's shown Greg up - yeh he's shown Leo up but so has Ricardo Texeira! Greg outperformed Sebastian during the first race yesterday and both fell foul in the second race to the incident on the opening lap. Sebastian's points advantage is down to his Oulton performance which was fantastic and he did easily outform Greg then but it's far to early to be comparing the pair - lets see at the end of the season where we're at.

I'm struggling to see your point about the Mansell's racing in the National Class - Greg has clearly shown he has the ability to perform in the main class and along with Hohenthal has been the most impressive rookie so far. Leo is a completely different case however.

mrsweety · 23 Apr 2007, 13:01 (Ref:1898549)

Gee! some harsh feedback :-)

Leo is not *useless* he stayed in the pack and looked ok taking the 120mph corners.

Anyway was a good days racing ha ha.

strider · 23 Apr 2007, 13:12 (Ref:1898563)

I suspect there were some understandable team orders in place in race 1 to stop Hohenthal trying to steal Greg's thunder, but I agree with bella that he looks like the class act in that team. Leading rookie by some way, with two fastest laps from four races to underline his speed.

Overall, I thought it was a strange weekend. Asmer's the only one to have got his act together properly so far and at this rate he can comfortably afford to miss Bucharest. Despite the race results, Carlin didn't seem to have as good a set-up for the circuit as usual - see qualifying - and the tyres were taking forever to reach best operating temperature. Asmer set pole for race 1 on lap 21 and fastest race lap after another 17 laps.

Russfeld · 23 Apr 2007, 13:39 (Ref:1898583)

If the Mansells wanted to learn, they probably should have stayed in FBMW until they were competitive.

Gaz · 23 Apr 2007, 13:55 (Ref:1898592)

Greg IS competitive though - I wondered if it was a step to soon but he's proved in testing and over the Donington weekend that he's more than good enough for F3. Hohenthal is the most impressive rookie right now but beyond that Greg has proven a real talent and capable of running in the top 6 ahead of guys with far more experience and guys with much bigger reputations.

I agree with regards Leo though Russfeld. He didn't show any potential in BMW last year whereas Greg occasionally did and the step up is doing him no favours at all. I had to laugh when I watched the Motors TV coverage on Saturday and Greg was saying how there was a healthy rivalry as sometimes he was ahead and sometimes Leo was - since when has Leo ever been ahead of Greg other than maybe at the start of a qualy session when Greg hasn't been out!

Interesting point you make Strider - do you think team orders really exist at Fortec? There was much talk of the Mansell role there pre-season and how it would affect and outside team mate - do you think Hohenthal would risk his own career to help the Mansell's when clearly he is a very talented guy? I'm just interested to know on that one as obviously I don't have inside knowledge as some do.

By the way I think Hohenthal is an outstanding driver, certainly not making him out to be shoddy - his outright speed has been tremendous thus far and he's always exciting to watch out on track - Ronnie Peterson-esque!

strider · 23 Apr 2007, 14:06 (Ref:1898603)

I'm not saying there were pro-Mansell team orders, just that with Greg ahead and overtaking being being a chancy business it made sense for them to hold station.

I think Greg is doing much better than his previous record and experience would suggest, whereas Leo's doing about what you would expect and maybe making it look worse through trying to keep up with his brother. They're both supposed to be useful golfers as well; maybe Leo's the better one at that and he should give it a try instead, but that's a tricky choice for Dad to make.

runshaw · 23 Apr 2007, 15:24 (Ref:1898661)

I agree with everything you say Gaz, greg is competitive and showing bundles of raw talent. He wasn't just been on the pace in pre-season testing, he was occasionally the pace setter in a few sessions. 5 points scoring positions in 6 F3 races is great. You also have to remember the Mansells have probably been learning more than you think as well, whilst racing in FBMW last year they were also testing for Fortec in F3 on numerous occasions, culminating in racing in the season finale at Thruxton. So in fact as well as learning how to race in bmw, they have also had months of F3 testing already, and it looks like this intensive preparation at a higher level is paying off for Greg at least anyway. Leo should have stayed in FBMW though.

brakedisc · 23 Apr 2007, 16:08 (Ref:1898687)

Could the Mansell situation back up the theory that F3 cars are too difficult to drive and that only those with proper funding for an extensive test programme are in with a chance of success?

Russfeld · 23 Apr 2007, 16:20 (Ref:1898697)

I dunno, in some ways they are making driving an F3 car look kinda easy.

runshaw · 23 Apr 2007, 16:32 (Ref:1898707)

Greg is driving like a veteran, his drive back up through the field in race 2 to get a point was impressive to say the least. As for Leo, he has only made it to the finish once...in 20th place, he is making it look like bloody hard work!

miniman · 23 Apr 2007, 16:42 (Ref:1898712)

Quote:

Originally Posted by runshaw

Greg is driving like a veteran, his drive back up through the field in race 2 to get a point was impressive to say the least. As for Leo, he has only made it to the finish once...in 20th place, he is making it look like bloody hard work!

i noticed that Bird was clipped by Moraes, spun and went down to about 20th or even lower, and drove back through the field, also in race 2, to finish 9th. i would say that is quite impressive, too.

Sev · 23 Apr 2007, 18:46 (Ref:1898787)

But Bird's ability has never been in doubt :P

Aside question: Do the Mansell's have any depth of karting experience, or are they learning it from single-seaters up like Bruno Senna did?

If so, if Greg manages to perform better this year than Bruno did in his first year...

**bella** · 23 Apr 2007, 18:59 (Ref:1898797)

i'm gonna start giving negative feedback and banning points to people who manage to name drop their sibling/spawn/close associate. at least be subtle about it!!

runshaw · 23 Apr 2007, 19:17 (Ref:1898811)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sev

Aside question: Do the Mansell's have any depth of karting experience, or are they learning it from single-seaters up like Bruno Senna did?

I think the Mansells did a year of karting, rotax max possibly. Apparently Greg got into it seriously and Leo did it for a bit of fun. But no serious karting background whatsoever, most of the drivers on the grid have raced karts for about 10 years before they did single-seaters. Bruno only had about half a year in karts before he did 6 FBMW races at the end of 04.

**bella** · 23 Apr 2007, 19:36 (Ref:1898823)

hmm, so if leo's still racing for fun, and he's having it paid for... who's the fool?

Charlies · 23 Apr 2007, 21:14 (Ref:1898884)

Leo does seem to get involved in a lot of accidents trying to move up from poor qualifying positions. It can't be a comfortable position for him that Greg is clearly the better of the two as shown by his strong performance at Donington.

Also, I thought the racing was better than Oulton, that it was good to see the Mygales solidly in the top ten, and that Rodolfo Gonzalez is doing a good job in the Mugen-Honda. But Asmer is going to pull away if the rest keep taking points off each other.

runshaw · 23 Apr 2007, 22:41 (Ref:1898944)

Yeah the racing was much better than at Oulton, there were quite a few drives through the field such as Mansell and Bird in race 2. Gonzalez also made up a fair few places to finish 6th in race 2 and Niall Breen did a great job to come home second after starting 5th on the grid. Also Valerio in race 1 started 32nd and finished 14th, not bad.

runshaw · 23 Apr 2007, 22:48 (Ref:1898947)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

OK, how did Teixeira get 16th and 15th then? These results are confusing in some ways.

He did a good job in the races and was in some good battles which he came out on top of. After 2 years in British F3 these results aren't really unexpected, a few people did drop off at the start in both races and you would expext to be ahead of some of the inexperienced National class runners, after all he is in championship class car powered by Mercedes. What surprised me most is him being passed by Moraes and then re-passing him on the next lap and stayed ahead in front of about 6 cars. Jelley passed a lot of people in lap 2 after he spun to the back, but couldn't get passed Teixeira for the last 4 laps or so!

strider · 23 Apr 2007, 22:59 (Ref:1898952)

Minor point (or possibly major, depending on your point of view), but Teixeira has a Mugen-Honda engine. Also,

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

not wanting to start a fight, but thanks to some decent driver coaching and a sound engineer, he's not actually that bad any more...

runshaw · 23 Apr 2007, 23:25 (Ref:1898967)

oops, my bad! I've read what Bella said already, were you supposed to say something about it?

Knowlesy · 24 Apr 2007, 17:02 (Ref:1899455)

Thanks for the details runshaw.

Oh well, don't we all look ridiculous then! Noisy was right all along.

dave not neil · 24 Apr 2007, 17:59 (Ref:1899495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Minor point (or possibly major, depending on your point of view), but Teixeira has a Mugen-Honda engine. Also,

A certain Mr Joey Foster driver coaching, can't be bad!

strider · 25 Apr 2007, 11:36 (Ref:1900013)

Before this thread comes to a natural conclusion, it should be mentioned that Max Chilton did indeed make his F3 debut at Donington. 16 on the Saturday for qualifying and the youngest ever F3 race driver on Sunday. It even made the pages of BBC Ceefax as a new world record!

He didn't set the world on fire, but he kept his nose clean and it was a good, steady debut with two upgrade signatures in the book.

Sev · 25 Apr 2007, 12:25 (Ref:1900051)

On the subject, could anyone please give me a decent reason why Max Chilton is on the F3 grid? True, it's a grand achievement, and he's doing excellently considering the circumstances....

However, I can't see how being in F3 would be more beneficial to his career than a year in FBMW/FR. Struggling at the back will prevent him learning as much, cost him more money, and give him a worse record/reputation.

I just don't get it.

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